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TJ 230 Hercules Winch bad brass!!

Started by Mooseknuckle, February 25, 2015, 06:53:16 PM

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Oliver05262

  Hey, Moose. Hope you have a speedy recovery, and sure glad it didn't turn out worse. Good thing they caught the one responsible.
  Looks like you got an early Easter basket.
Get well soon.
OD
Oliver Durand
"You can't do wrong by doing good"
It's OK to cry.
I never did say goodby to my invisible friend.
"I woke up still not dead again today" Willy
Don't use force-get a bigger hammer.

dgdrls

Holy cow,  glad you were not hurt worse.
The shiny new gear set should help with your recovery,

Some pictures to document the rebuild would be very cool.

Get well quick
DGDrls

Mooseknuckle

Just about to put the brass gear and worm back together. Does anyone know what to put in first? Or does the the large brass gear go on then the worm and shaft from the back side and turned into the teeth of the large brass gear?
Ive included some pictures of the gears side by side to show the damage!!
:o

  

  

 
Pioneer P51 is look'n for a Buddy!!

Mooseknuckle

What a day! Someone must have pitched out the castle nut that goes on the end of the worm shaft. And go figure the threaded end is a 1" 20 thread per" UNEF extra fine!!!!! Yup no one carries it so i have to get one machined up.
And the next thing that went wrong was the worm gear is 1/4" longer than the origional so i have to get that machined off as well >:(
I gues thats what i get for messing with a 1965 model Herc winch!!!! Oh well its gonna pull mean jag when put back together!!!

  

  

 
Pioneer P51 is look'n for a Buddy!!

coxy

are you shur that the old worm gear is not wore off that much I would make some calls before cutting down the new one   jm 2cents    just looked at the pics a little closer  the old worm gear is wore down I would not have any thing cut off on the new one

Neilo

The old gears are the type 2 22:1 ratio. They were meant to be replaced with the 16.5:1 like you are doing. I think I send you the stuff on assembly but how you describe is right. Brass first into housing then worm with worm shaft etc.

Just take note, the whole winch and hyd lines are probably a type 2 winch. The brake cylinder specs are different. You will sort it out.

Mooseknuckle

Coxy, when i place the old worm gear on the shaft it fits tight between the two spacer rings which butt up tight against each side of it fitting properly into the wood drift key. The new worm pushes the ring spacer back towards the yolk end 1/4" so its just hanging on to the wood drift key. And the fact that the new worm is actually 1/4" longer in length. The old worm still contains its serial or part number on one end and the date 1965 on the opposite end so its length has not changed, just the jibbers took a grinding!!!! :o. Thanks for the advice tho, i thing there was a slight change in design from when this winch was made in 1965 to a year or two later. If anyone knows please comment!!
Pioneer P51 is look'n for a Buddy!!

Mooseknuckle

Thanks Neilo, i figured something changed slightly!!!  I spoke to a guy at Harold's today but the expert Randy was out for lunch. For price comparison, they sell the brass large gear for 1099.00 and i got the large gear for just over 900 canadian so a little discount for anyone from the US if your up around Montreal area!!
Pioneer P51 is look'n for a Buddy!!

teakwood

On the pics you can see that the old worm gear has 7 threads and the new one has only 5. So what Neilo says with the ratio makes absolutely sense.
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

lopet

The old gear looks pretty sharp on the edges, which means a lot of wear.  Moose , you gonna end up with a almost new winch. Just wondering how much they were in 1965.
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

Mooseknuckle

Yup new is right!! I bought the se kit for the clutch side 4 new replacement bolts with spacers and an additional clutch side seal. I hope you guys dont mind all the posts and pics, i just want to make it an informative post to help everyone out if they sh choose to get into something like this 8)
I've been holding off with other pics of the machine but i'm hiping to have it al done by May.  Great learning experience for me scratching my head at times but working through it!!  :D
Pioneer P51 is look'n for a Buddy!!

bushmechanic

I hope you got new bearings for that worm shaft because in that pic with the vernier caliper that tapered bearing is toast?

Mooseknuckle

Hey Bushmechanic, what exactly did u see with that bearing that indicates its toast? The cage seems intact and rollers work good, nothing seems to be blue indicating heat. If they need to be changed absolutely I will, i just want to know what to look for with them. 
Thanks in advance for the educating!

Moose
Pioneer P51 is look'n for a Buddy!!

Mooseknuckle

Heres another picture with the bearings, just zoom in for a better look. 

 
Pioneer P51 is look'n for a Buddy!!

UN Hooker

  Before you go too far, you may want to "dry fit" the new gears to see if they will mesh correctly.
  If they are a different ratio, the center line of the shafts may be different also.
         UN
Retired Toolmaker/Moldmaker
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bushmechanic

Mooseknuckle I sent you a pm. I don't know how to zoom in I'm not that computer savy, lol. Anyway those bearing rollers got rusty at some point usually because they sit in the bottom of the winch and oil floats on water. I wouldn't assemble that with those bearings or races. I'm sure someone else will weigh in on this also. 

Mooseknuckle

Ok that makes sense Bushmechanic. My buddy put it together and there is a bit of play, I'm thinking 1/8" when u push and pull on the shaft so perhaps they took some ware and tare. I'll take a look tomorrow and most likely order new bearings and racers. Thanks again. Your PM didn't come through so i sent a message back but disregard!! Thanks!  Moose
Pioneer P51 is look'n for a Buddy!!

Mooseknuckle

Actually im just wondering as well should there be any back and forth movement in the shaft. Apparently the yoke is in place and tight but if you push or pull on it there is some play.  Just wondering if anyone has any idea?
Pioneer P51 is look'n for a Buddy!!

Mooseknuckle

Well Gents we got it a sorted out and fine tuned!! Heres a couple of pics. Gonna start working on the clutch side now 8)


  

  

  

  

 
Pioneer P51 is look'n for a Buddy!!

Mooseknuckle

Hey guys I'm into the clutch side now and go figure the parts i ordered dont fit this winch.  (Seal kit  for inside the hydraulic activator) The four bolts and spacers for the flywheel are of a larger diameter as well!!! So looks like the only seal that i can replace is the smaller seal on the inside of the large flywheel.  The original one was definitely shot. I picked up all new hydraulic lines for the entire machine including the winch. It appears they used no pipe dope or teflon tape when connecting the line to the winch so it was leaking there as well.  I spoke to Randy from Harold's and he told me to set the bolts so I have 70 thou gap between fly wheel and clutch plate.  I'll have it all back together tomorrow!



  

  

  

  

  

 
Pioneer P51 is look'n for a Buddy!!

lopet

Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

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