iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

404 skip chain choices

Started by terrifictimbersllc, February 23, 2015, 09:41:41 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

terrifictimbersllc

Any experience on which of these chains keeps an edge better, oils better, or is better for other reason?  They're both semi-chisel full skip.   MS880/59" bar, mostly noodling/semi-noodling to split larger (edit-hardwood) logs in half.

Stihl 46RMF
OR27AX
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

webgal

The locals when using the big machines always came in for the OR27AX for a fast cutting .404. It has the speed for production timberfalling.

Gotta know when to fell em, know when to tell em, know when to walk away, know when to run....

Mn woodchuck

to soon oldt to late schmart!
3 husky 350xps 340xp 362 346. 372xp McCullough 710.and a jonsered 2150 sopped up..
Cat D6 D2

terrifictimbersllc

Please forgive if I pester you once again about this.  Just got my 59" bar and  a Stihl micro chisel skip 46RMF chain for my MS880.   Want to get at least two or three more of these long chains and seeking opinion about which style would serve me best.

I am wondering whether round chisel will work better for splitting large logs (noodling).  But I can't find any Stihl 46RSF (round chisel skip) anywhere, dealers here don't have it.   In Oregon round chisel skip  there is  OR 68JX,  or OR 59J (ramp gauges), which I can get.

Here are my questions (mostly anticipating splitting large oak logs): 

1) opinion on round chisel vs micro chisel for noodling,  should I just stick with several 46RMF chains or try some OR round filed chain too.

2) if round chain is worth a try, should I get 68JX or 59J .

3) is skip obviously necessary for the 59" bar when noodling, or should I consider trying some full  comp?  Maybe more teeth break up the noodles?  I can get Stihl 46RS (round chisel full comp) from Bailey's and stick with Stihl.

Thanks.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Ed

I wouldn't try full comp.....my 084, 60" came with it originally (dealer didn't know any better). It was terrible, the saw would hardly pull it, to many teeth in the cut on large logs.

The fact that the bar was a hardnose didn't help either.

Ed

01crewcab

Oregon 27AX is round filed chain. Is in fact "chipper' or round tooth. Yes you want full skip. Not real familiar with .404X .063 Stihl chain. Always ran either Oregon or Carlton.
2100(2),480, 281, 181,372XPW, 460,435,350,61(4),51-Huskys
49SP, 630Super(3),670's(4), 830, 920, 930 Jonsered's
S-XL925 Homelite
SP125C, 790, 250, 1010 Macs
27Ton Troybilt Splitter
NRA Life Endowment Member
Viet Nam Vet

HolmenTree

Here's my Stihl 46RSF on a 36" Alaskan mill. Mills real nice in both spruce and birch that I mostly cut.
I recommend chisel over semi chisel for noodle rip cutting.


 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

terrifictimbersllc

Thank you for your comments.  I can't find 46RSF online or around here.  Know anyone selling it?  Short of that any experience with OR 59J or 68JX or opinion which would be better for lengthwise sawing?
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

JohnG28

I wouldn't want to file a 60" full comp chain!  :o
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

sawguy21

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on March 07, 2015, 06:28:52 AM
Thank you for your comments.  I can't find 46RSF online or around here.  Know anyone selling it?  Short of that any experience with OR 59J or 68JX or opinion which would be better for lengthwise sawing?
You will need to go to a Stihl dealer for that chain, they are not allowed to sell online. We don't sell much .404 ripping chain, Oregon does not offer pre cut loops and few want a roll.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

HolmenTree

My 090 pulls a full comp semi chisel .404 harvestor Stihl chain in 60". ;D


 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: sawguy21 on March 07, 2015, 12:13:41 PM
Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on March 07, 2015, 06:28:52 AM
Thank you for your comments.  I can't find 46RSF online or around here.  Know anyone selling it?  Short of that any experience with OR 59J or 68JX or opinion which would be better for lengthwise sawing?
You will need to go to a Stihl dealer for that chain, they are not allowed to sell online. We don't sell much .404 ripping chain, Oregon does not offer pre cut loops and few want a roll.
Clarifying, Stihl dealers around here don't have the 46RSF in their books.   Bailey's while not a Stihl dealer, currently lists 46RS (full comp round chisel), 46RM (full comp micro chisel), 46RMF (skip micro chisel), and 46RSLF (skip square chisel), but no 46RSF (skip round chisel).
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

HolmenTree

Terrific timber. Order the 46RSLF from Bailey's . Use it until dull, then round file it and you then have 46RSF.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: HolmenTree on March 07, 2015, 08:55:46 PM
Terrific timber. Order the 46RSLF from Bailey's . Use it until dull, then round file it and you then have 46RSF.
This sounds great.   Will the first filing be like a regular filing or remove a lot of material/shorten the tooth?   I have a cyclone CBN wheel if necessary was going to try to stick to hand filing though.

Your pic above brings another thought to mind, I have bulk OR16 harvester chain that I use on my Peterson slabber.  Says not for hand held use but don't see why, maybe the depth gauges are a bit lower?  Is that what you're using in cutting the paper roll & how do you think it would be for ripping logs?  Much cheaper than 46RSLF. 
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

HolmenTree

That 46RSLF actually has a little more cutter length then round ground 46RS if my memory is correct. . Very easy to round file from square, stay with the 15° top plate angle.

I tried 46RS .404 chisel on those big 54" diameter kraft paper rolls but would be completely dull before I got through. Toughest fiber I've ever cut. Was told by the paper mill techs there was alot of natural grit in the the pulp which is abrasive.
Only the semi chisel harvestor chain could hold an edge and not stretch to make the 5 minute at WOT cut.
Then it needed a light touch up with the round file to get the edge back , took about 5-8 minutes.
We cut over 40 rolls in half  one day. Did that for several months and at $100 hr it was a good contract. The mill has since purchased a $30,000 guillotine machine to cut the cull rolls so they could fit them back into the repulper.

Yes that harvestor chain has no anti kickback features  at all so  not recommended for hand held use.
.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

terrifictimbersllc

Should I get one of those files and try my hand at filing the square chisel a time or two? Madsen's has a detailed instruction of how to do it.  Or is it just too hard to do freehand?
I have a feeling I'm going to be impressed with how it cuts especially with a new chain.   That's all I need is to start thinking about getting a square chisel grinder.  ::) ::) ::)
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

HolmenTree

Square filing takes alot of patience to learn. Some like the flat bevel files. Some like the triangular bevels.
I believe if you round filed for many years and are good at it, then go trying to learn chisel bit filing is really tough.
Easier to learn  either one first or learn them both together. Just my opinion.  :D
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

terrifictimbersllc

I know what to do now.  Thanks so much everyone I sure appreciate this Forum.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Oliver1655

Like Holman's advise. 

If you get a Stihl 2 in 1 file for the .404 chain, you will find you can sharpen the chain fairly quickly with it keeping the raker height filed at the same time.  (There is not setup time.  Just mark the starting tooth & file.)  With full comp chain the back guide bar on the file will not have a tooth to ride on but with the wide, flat handles, it is easy to keep it level.

John

Stihl S-08s (x2), Stihl S10 (x2), Jonsered CS2139T, Husqvarna 338XPT California, Poulan Microvibe XXV, Poulan WoodShark, Poulan Pro 42cc, McCulloch Mini-Mac 6 (x2), Van Ruder Hydraulic Tractor Chainsaw

terrifictimbersllc

Don't know the 2 in 1 file, what is it?  Link?

p.s. found it here.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p57zA9OOjs0

Anyone tried this?   Looks good but downside is how to use up the raker flat file efficiently, seems like this guide allows only use of a center portion of the flat file.  Also rotating the round files is it easy?

Not seeing the 2 in 1 guide for 404, in the stihl catalog.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Oliver1655

Check out the Pferd cs-x, it is available in .404.

There are 2 round files seem to rotate some while using the file. One for the right hand cutters & one for the left.

You use one side of the flat/raker file while sharpening the right cutters & you flip the guide over using the other side for the left. 

The end of the handle opens to allow the files to be changed so once you feel the raker file need to be changed, you can pull it out & use it free hand.  As little as the raker file takes off, it should last a long time.  I have sharpened over 50 chains, 14" to 25" full comp/full chisel & have not changed the files.

John

Stihl S-08s (x2), Stihl S10 (x2), Jonsered CS2139T, Husqvarna 338XPT California, Poulan Microvibe XXV, Poulan WoodShark, Poulan Pro 42cc, McCulloch Mini-Mac 6 (x2), Van Ruder Hydraulic Tractor Chainsaw

HolmenTree

I found this interesting write up from 1965, about the slow acceptance of the chisel bit chain in the PNW even though the chain design had been around since 1950.
I'm still looking for other articles on hand filing chisel bit chain , will post when I find something.

Anyone else please feel free to add if you have anything. :)


  

    
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

jmouton

  just a little off topic , but it has to do with long  bars ,,  just got a 49 inch bar for my 075 ,,,  and the saw already ways like 23 pounds ,  but with the bar and chain ,,  whoooly  cow  it is heavy ,,  wouldnt want to saw  very much with it  ,,,


                                                                                                            jim
lt-40 wide ,,bobcat,sterling tandem flatbed log truck,10 ton trailer, stihl 075,041,029,066,and a 2017 f-350,oh and an edger

sawguy21

 :o You better be strong like bull to pack that around. What are you planning to do with it?
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

jmouton

          sawguy  i plan on rippin down big logs  so i can fit them on my mill ,,, and maybe make some  big thick slabs for tables ,,,  got 2 logs now that are about 44 inch in diameter  and 16 ft long ,,  i know its going to be alot of work  but i am used to it ,,,,  i do concrete for a living ,, 


                                                                                                                              jim
lt-40 wide ,,bobcat,sterling tandem flatbed log truck,10 ton trailer, stihl 075,041,029,066,and a 2017 f-350,oh and an edger

Thank You Sponsors!