House building project under way

[DanG]

This being my 2000th post on The ForestryForum 8) I thought I should make it a biggie.

We have decided to start building our new house, and have taken the first preliminary steps. We have tentatively selected a plan, and ordered detailed drawings that will tell us if this is really the one, or not. I also talked with the engineer who will bring the plans up to code, make a few minor changes, and engineer the foundation. He seems like a really nice guy, and he was patient in answering all my questions, at least all I could think of at the time.

Yesterday, I spent quite a while at the building permit office, where I asked more questions and got some eye-opening answers.  Here again, the people there were very patient with me, and my lack of experience didn't seem to bother them at all. I think that these are folks I can work with.  Ahh, the joys of being in a small rural county.

A couple of the shockers I learned about were:  Product Approval Codes!  Certain elements of the structure must be pre-accepted by the Florida Building Commission and bear a PAC number. This includes the windows, roofing and trusses, sheathing AND siding, exterior doors, and a bunch of other stuff, besides the obvious plumbing and electrical items. That wasn't a total surprise, but I was shocked to learn that I have to select all of these items beforehand, and submit the PAC numbers along with the application for permit.  I will have to submit a letter for each item that changes during construction. This will really complicate things for me, as it will all but preclude shopping around for best prices when I get ready for each of these items.
I knew I would be limited in the amount of my own wood I can use, but I thought surely I could cut my own siding. The porch flooring is another item that I'll have to settle on storebought crap instead of the cypress I was gonna cut.  The best advice I could get for a solution to these problems was, "put up the cheapest stuff you can get away with, then replace it after we're gone." (wink wink)  After spending hours reading about the building codes and PACs online, I think it would be cheaper to just get my own products pre-approved before I apply for the permit. The fee is only $300 for each group of items. For instance, I could get several types of siding approved under one fee. The products have to be lab tested, though, and I don't know what that would cost, or how long it would take.
Well, that's what I've done so far. I'll update as things happen.
BTW, the plan we're thinking about can be seen at the link below. Just look for plan #  DD-1850

www.homeplans.com

[Buzz-sawyer]

Dang
Arent you proud these people are there to tell you witch kinds of sidding and decking you may use on your house,

and that they also know that cheap crap will fill thier expectations,
and that the quality material you want to put on your home does not,
and that, they secretly recomend spending money to meet the letter of thier absurd and meaningless laws.........

then spending more time and money to replace the junk with what you originally wanted.......................
This is a PROBLEM....I cant even make up a funny joke about it

[Paschale]

How did our ancestors, the good ole pioneers, sleep at night without knowing their siding and porch floor had been tested in a lab?  Man, how far we've come!  Thank god for progress!   :

[EIGHTWGT]

WOW...........

that really bums me out.  Im going to go talk to a friend of mine. I live in Jacksonville and know a LOT of builders both residentual and commercial - my brother and cousin are also both Architects......    Seeing that I want to build my own house with my own cut lumber and reside also in Florida I want to see what my friend that will be 'building' my house has to say......

[CHARLIE]

Those rules were put there to protect the house buyer, that knows absolutely nothing about buildings and materials, from untrustworthy Contractors that would use shoddy material.

The problem, when the governments implement such rules, is they don't allow for any changes if someone wanted to use a high quality material that deviated from their rule. That is sad.

I feel rules are made as a guide and are meant to be broken if common sense applies.  But, no one wants to stick their neck out and it's easier for them to just follow the rule ver batum

[Weekend_Sawyer]

 Well said Charlie.

Congratulations Dan on everything. 2,000 posts wow, take a breath. Building your own house, what a great thing to do.
Running the permit process gauntlet... are you nuts! Man talk about taking abuse! I guess you have to, good luck.

Why don't you keep this thread running  and post pictures of the building in progress.

Jon

[florida]

DanG
Where exactly in Florida are you? I'm a Florida contractor so maybe I can help you out some here.
First thing is try not to use a plan service. By the time you finish paying someone to tweak those generic plans to fit your jurisdiction they will cost as much or more than if you hired a local building designer.  I pay $.80 a square foot here for finished plans stamped by an architect.  The designer knows everything the building department needs so I don't have to go looking for product specs or anything else.  
You can take the floor plan you like as well as an elevation to any designer and they will fix you right up.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Don't know mothin bout them PMS numbers, but, I do believe each county has it's own agenda, as far as setting specs for building.

  I know of one feller that had sheathed his entire house with T&G 1 X 6.  The inspector failed the house. The owner called in to the building code office and spoke with the head honcho.

  When the inspector got back to the office, his boss questioned why he faiked the job. After explaining himself, the boss said, Don't you know that what he used is 5 times stronger than plywood ???  Now, go out there and pass that sheathing. : ;D ;D ;D

  We have been checking into the same as DanG. We found out that an engineer can spec your building material and certify your home sawn lumber to be used in your house. Rough sawn CAN be used, even though the inspectors say no.

  Putnam County is a real bear to get stuff approved. >:(

  Sure wish somebody with brains would take over this Govt. fiasco stuff.  >:( : :

[EZ]

Ran into so much of this crap I was ready to blow.
Was just getting the tools out on one job and some pea-brain inspector pull in and said that log cabins homes arent strong enough in his county. I had a few words with him but didnt matter. As I walk by him I gave him the elbow hit in the shouder and broke his collar bone. I went home and it wasnt long when the sheiff came and spent 18 hours in jail, had to pay the doctor bill and lost my job. :
EZ

[DanG]

I didn't mean to start a firestorm of anti-bureaucratic sentiment, here. : ;D

Much of what I posted earlier, I learned by reading the Florida Code, interpreting it as I saw it. There may well be provisions included that will allow me to work around some of these challenges, and I will find them if they are there. Whatever happens there, I am determined to build the BEST house I can with the funds available.

I suspected there may be some building contractors on the forum that might offer some advice, in fact I was counting on it. ;D

I'm not going to get into a pithing contest with the inspectors if I can help it.  I know they are just doing their job as instructed, and I can get a lot more leeway by seeming cooperative than by confronting them. The 2 I talked to seemed just as pained as we are about the new regs, and I feel like they will give me every benefit of the doubt they can.

Gotta go for now. Wife just got in from outtatown and my concentration is shot! :D  More later.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  I just figured I would pass along some info that I had gotten. If it seemed that I was being confrontational, I guess I don't express myself well. So, I will just read from now on.

[Buzz-sawyer]

I have built homes and done about everything related to the consstruction field for almost 25 years.........


Dang  I always cooperate with them all , and everybody else, for that matter, and do my work right and above and beyond code many times........ i am havin fun (sometimes) buildin my dream house and maybe we can encourage each other.......I simply was voicing my personal frustration dealing with people who know FAR LESS than me about the industry ....usually POLITICAL payback jobs, that try to find fault as a condition of thier employment.....if they find nothing wrong they just look till they do......

EZ...I didnt know you were such a tough guy :D :D...I am sure you only bumped him acidentally

[DanG]

OK, things are settling down a bit.

Eightwgt, I was hoping you were reading this thread. I saw where you're planning to cut out your own house. I hope this gives you a chance to school off of me as you follow my trials and tribulations and, hopefully, a few victories.

Florida, I appreciate your offer of help, and I'll take you up on it.  I can use all the help I can get. You gotta keep in mind, though, that I'm an opinionated old fart, and have my mind set on certain things. I won't be blindly accepting whatever parts an architect pulls out of a book. I may put that on the original application, but I'll do the shopping and buy what I want, when the time comes. I just have to submit a letter to make the change. The engineer I'm working with says he can save me money by working from an existing plan, and with me doing the legwork, I should come in at about $.60 to $.65 sq ft.  What I will likely need the most help with is the mechanics of putting the whole thing together. I have very little experience in construction, but the only way I can do this on my meager budget is to do it myself. It may take me weeks to build the foundation wall, but I got lots more time than money.

[Furby]

DanG, learning as you go really IS the best way to learn.
You'll make PLENTY of mistakes, but you will get it right in the long run. I hear ya on the time vs. money thing and can only say "keep at it"! Just remember, if ya think it'll take ya a week to do something, it will really take you two. ;)

[etat]

Makes me glad that there's no building codes to meet out in the county where I live.  That said, I did build my house completely to where it would have passed most building codes, perhaps with the exception of using sawmill lumber for siding, etc.

I did a lot of research on building codes before I built my house.  One thing that I discovered was there were or have been a LOT of shady contractors in Fla. in the past.  Building LOTS of high dollar houses with shoddy materials, and shoddy construction practices.  One of the worst offenders was M...... Homes.   There were so many complaints against them, and others like them, including fly by night contractors that come through after storms and do sub standard work and take peoples hard earned money,  and this is the reason that I believe for Fla. tough building codes.  I understand how this will make it tough on you.  It would slightly, ok, maybe more than slightly p..... me off too.  I have no answers, just wanted to pass on what I found out when I was trying to learn about building codes before building my house.

[J_T]

I lived in a town once thad had weird cods on some lots they wouldn't let you build new because of lot size. The answer to this was remodel as long as you had a wall standing it was considered remodling of corce you could replace it last.Here I needed electric for my sawmill to complicated and expencive so I used a tralar service pole 200amp for the well I was going to drill got it turned on may drill well in 2020 :D All I ask is tell me the laws an I will work with them Like what are the laws on a storage building a barn garage ??? I saw a garage built once that in no way looked like it was one but that is what the man said it was . Good luck if I was closer I would volenteer to drive a few nails as I did it for a few years also did elect and plumbing. I do better at that than spelling ;D

[IndyIan]

Hi DanG,
If you can, maybe getting to know a reasonably priced engineer would help you out quite a bit.  In my brief building experience an engineer's stamp allows you to do stuff that makes sense that isn't covered in your building code.

We wanted a cantilevered balcony 4ft wide, and cantilevers over 13" aren't covered in our building code.  Our floor joists were 2x12's on 16" centres so it was pretty obvious the balcony wasn't going to break off but the inspector wouldn't approve it.  So our choice was to get some engineered floor joists for $3800! but our architect recommended an engineer and he stamped our cantilever for $200.  We saved around $2400 going with regular floor joists and the engineer.

Our engineer was retired and was still working just because he likes too so his rates were really good.

Also I found no one else is as interested in saving my money than me so look into all your options.

Have fun too though, it can get a bit stressful at times!

Ian

[DanG]

Yep, the engineer is already on board.  I'm sure he can help punch through some things, but he has to stay with approved products, such as your joists.  As I understand it, products that don't have a PAC have to undergo tests by and engineer or architect And be approved by another. Gets expensive!

J-T, I'll be in touch when it comes nail drivin' time. ;D  THAT's the kind of help I'm really gonna need.

[EZ]

Tuff guy, not me. ;D Back then I was a 24 year old hot head and paid for it at times. :D Live and learn the hard way, that was my motto.  :
EZ

[florida]

DanG
At this stage of life I suppose I'm an opinionated old fart myself. Sounds like you have things well in hand. You shouldn't have any major problems. a house is a huge project that goes up one board and one nail at a time.  
If you don't already have one spend the money and buy yourself a decent framing nailer and compressor. A typical framed house has about 400 pounds of nails in it and they take a lot of hammering. A nail gun will keep you in better shape and allow you to frame much, much faster. A good gun will allow you to shoot 8# through 16# nails.   If you're shingling buy a shingle nailer too.

[DanG]

Nail gun is real high on my shopping list. I've had a reccomendation to get the Dewalt gun because it is lighter, but still a quality tool, ie rebuildable. You concur?  Roof will be metal, so I'll be shooting lots of screws when we get to that point.

[J_T]

Yep you wright a nail gun will save a lot of time and pounding. Be sure it is where you want it before you shoot it if in queshton tack with a hammer then when you are sure shoot it these nails are super hard to get back out.I would sugest if you can or the commies will let you before sealing the elect box run a conduit to the outside for forgotten use as it is easer now than getting back in the box later .Just a thought PS those nail guns shoot thur your fingers easer than wood guess how I know ??? ;D

[J_T]

Don't know about Dewalt we used Bostic coil nails never had a problem. We chalk lined off large areas hold trigger back and get a ruthem going bouncing it along.On long spans with two hook the chalk lines together and reel to each outher saves time and walking. We used blue then if we goofed we went to red for corected lines.

[OneWithWood]

Good-luck to you, Dan.  We have been building our house for about 14 years now.  It is a project that never ends.  We got the major stuff done in the first two years then took a hiatus of 12 years to think about what we wanted to do with the basement we lived in before we put the house on top of it.  I'm still thinkin' on it  :P :P : ??? ;D

[DanG]

OW, OWW! :D  My wife would leave me if I took that long. Besides, in 14 years I'll be 72.  We've set a goal of 2 years to get moved in.

J-T, I plan to put outlets all along those wrap-around porches, but a "future use" conduit is a good idea, anyway. I'll be planning on that.