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Timberking Hydraulic Issue

Started by pine, February 22, 2015, 11:27:00 PM

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pine

Thought I would put this out to see if anyone had an idea what might be the problem's solution.  Obviously a call to TK is in order but any ideas would be appreciated.

A couple of weeks ago I had a short period in which my mill head up/down would not go up unless the engine was at high RPM.  It just sat there if at idle which is not normal for the mill, slower yes but at the time it would not move at all.  That lasted for a bit and went away and I forgot about it until today when I had another hydraulic issue.

I am not certain but believe that it is an open center hydraulic system and not a closed center hydraulic system.

Today the "log stops" stopped moving.  Well almost.  They were up and would not go down.  Finally got them down, but then they would only go up 1-1.5 inch but no more, engine was at idle.  At full RPM they would go up about 2 inches but no more.  I cycled them back and forth multiple times (about 20 times) and finally got them up to about 4 inches but that was it.

The gauge on the filter (flow restriction as it gets older/dirtier) shows normal.  The other hydraulic functions worked normal today both in idle and full power. 

My thoughts are that
1. I have a valve issue but it has moved  from one spool valve to another if that is the case.
2. I could have some foreign object that is intermittently blocking one line or another but the filter should have stopped that so it should not be one foreign object that is moving around but may be multiple small blockages.
3. The next thought is that the hydraulic motor is going and today's issue is unrelated to the one a couple of weeks ago.

Those are the only ideas that I have come up with.  Any other ideas??

beenthere

Is the hydraulic oil getting foamy?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

pine

Did not open the tank cap but the sight gauge does not show evidence of foaming.

fstedy

As far as the head up/down goes most of the TK mills are electric. Check the toggle switch and solenoids. The log stops and other hydraulic functions need more than idle from the pony motor. They may move some but don't have much power especially if there is some restriction. Never had a problem on my B20 with the hyd. pony motor at speed. Another cause could be cold hyd. oil.
Timberking B-20   Retired and enjoying every minute of it.
Former occupations Electrical Lineman, Airline Pilot, Owner operator of Machine Shop, Slot Machine Technician and Sawmill Operator.
I know its a long story!!!

pine

The new mills are pretty much all hydraulic except for the guide arm motor and the debarker. 
No pony motor  like on the B20; everything runs off the main motor and it has been running just fine in idle, just slower than at full power due to lower flow rates I suspect. 
This is a new/change in how it works/doesn't work.

xlogger

I have not had a problem with that but let us know what they tell you from TK, just in case it happens to another one of us TK owners. How many hours do you have on yours? Maybe time to change the filter.
Timberking 2000, Turbo slabber Mill, 584 Case, Bobcat 773, solar kiln, Nyle L-53 DH kiln

bandmiller2

How is your hydraulic pump driven, if by belt perhaps its slipping under load. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Ga Mtn Man

Might be helpful to tell us which model you have.
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


2012 LT40HDG29 with "Superized" hydraulics,  2 LogRite cant hooks, home-built log arch.

Will_Johnson

If you haven't called our service folks yet, I would encourage you to. Or send me your contact info and I will have one of them call you!

Just to clarify a more general statement about TK mills: up/down on older generation B-20 mills was electric. All current models (with the exception of the manual 1220) have hydraulic up/down.

ncsawyer

Not too familiar with the Timber King,  but if your hydraulic reservoir is not venting properly you could be starving your pump for hydraulic fluid.  Easy way to check it to remove reservoir cap when your problem occurs and see if it improves.   Good luck with the trouble shooting.
2015 Wood-Mizer LT40DD35
Woodmaster 718 planer
Ford 445 Skip Loader

pine

Quote from: bandmiller2 on February 23, 2015, 07:10:27 AM
How is your hydraulic pump driven, if by belt perhaps its slipping under load. Frank C.

Quote from: ncsawyer on February 23, 2015, 07:33:46 PM
Not too familiar with the Timber King,  but if your hydraulic reservoir is not venting properly you could be starving your pump for hydraulic fluid.  Easy way to check it to remove reservoir cap when your problem occurs and see if it improves.   Good luck with the trouble shooting.

I had thought about the pump but since all the other hydraulics are working very unlikely it is the pump or pump related thus the belt is not slipping.
Since the rest of the hydraulics are working don't think the pump is cavitating either.

Quote from: Will_Johnson on February 23, 2015, 04:44:59 PM
If you haven't called our service folks yet, I would encourage you to. Or send me your contact info and I will have one of them call you!

Just to clarify a more general statement about TK mills: up/down on older generation B-20 mills was electric. All current models (with the exception of the manual 1220) have hydraulic up/down.

Thanks Will
I talked to one of your guys first thing Monday morning.  We discussed a plan for trouble shooting but may be a couple of days as I have a few thousand trees to plant.  That time of year again. If you do not plant them the babies born today will have nothing to saw as they grow up.

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The next best time is now." Chinese Proverb



pine

Well I had a lull in tree planting this afternoon (1000 down but many more to go) so I took a moment to start to trouble-shoot the mill's hydraulic issue as I had discussed with TK tech support on Monday morning.

After having worked fine for several hours the problem presented itself as I posted above.
After a rather significant period of time the other day, Sunday, with the log stops not working or at least working properly and being very, very repeatable in their failure mode I went out late this afternoon to start the detailed trouble-shoot. 

The TK tech folks, from my Monday conversation, were pretty positive that it had to be a mechanical restriction most likely on/in the chain and gearing of one of the log stops themselves.  I was not so positive, as I had done a rather thorough visual inspection of them at the time and detected no obstruction that would bind the movement and stall the hydraulic motor, however it did seem a logical approach and was the smartest step to go through with as a method of narrowing down the issue.

The plan was to isolate each of the four log stops from the hydraulically turned shaft and see what would happen.  This entailed removing the keyed connectors and setscrews at each shaft connection point and verifying there was not restriction in the mechanical movement of each log stop and that the other log stops were actuated correctly once the culprit was found.  Baring no restriction being found in the log stops, then the next step was to determine if the motor, once isolated from the shaft, had proper full rotation. However there was no way to determine if the motor, even if it rotated/worked, could operate the log stops as it could not be loaded up except by being connected to the log stop shaft.

I decided before I tore anything apart to revisit the issue. 

Don't you hate it when a problem suddenly will not duplicate.

There is now no issue at all now.  It went away.  In idle power the log stops go full range with no hesitation. All other controls work normally again at idle just as it should. Before it would not work even at full power flow. 
I did nothing in the meantime other than shut it down on Sunday and then start it up today.  I hate problems that go away.
As the TK tech guy asked me to, I will call him tomorrow and let him know what I found/did not find.
Whatever it is/was it will come back.  First the head raising issue that went away now the log stop issue that went away.  Will see what is next.  Love the anticipation of waiting.

I almost think it might be an air embolism issue but the way it is presenting that does not make sense either. 

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