real world production numbers

[mikeb1079]

so here's something that's been kicking around in my head for awhile....it seems that one of the constant questions on the forum is "how much can you cut a day with X mill?"  while it's easy to see what the various mill manufacturers advertise, we all know that there's a variety of factors that influence the actual daily production numbers.  so i thought it would be cool to start a thread where folks could post information on what their average production numbers are per day or hour.  some information to include could be:  mill type/age, support equipment, number of laborers, typical species sawn, average diameter/length, etc.  be as specific (or not) as possible.     could also include comments on setup and/or processing, such as portable vs stationary etc.  from the little manual 6hp bandmill to the commercial stud mill i think it would be interesting to hear the actual production numbers and could serve as a reference point as well. 

[mikeb1079]

up until this year i've been sawing with a 16hp home built manual mill.  no support equipment at all.  cutting mostly urban (read gnarly) timber, primarily live edge so little to any edging, i could only cut maybe 2-300 bf a day.  this was sawing typical northern hardwoods-oak, ash, hickory, walnut, cherry--by myself.  alot of time spent breaking down oversize logs and wrestling them onto the mill.  this was primarily a portable arrangement as we have a tiny lot in the city.  i could've done much better with a stationary setup with a dead deck.   hopefully this spring i'll have some production numbers with my new (to me) lt40 super   

[Napoleon1]

When you get that lt40 you will get those numbers in an hour by yourself. Good luck

[Billikenfan]

I have a 13hp lt15.  I have hit 1k plus feet on a good day.  That's just me with a skid steer to load the logs.  I but 2 1/2 x 3 1/2 blocking so you get a lot of footage fast.  I think I'm getting a new LT40 in the next couple of weeks. we'll see how it goes then.  Unless I can find a good deal on a used mill.

Scott

[Chuck White]

I will typically saw 1,500-1,800 bf/day with my mill.

This would be a mix of 1x & 2x boards!

I usually start sawing around 8:30 and shut down around 4:30.

Once in a while (when I have extra offbearers) I will saw up to about 2,300bf.

[WellandportRob]

Sawing 4/4 on my manual mill  22hp (no hydraulics, no support equipment) 1500- 2000 bdf a day.  Very tired and sore at the end of each day.

[Dave Shepard]

Grade sawing 4/4 or 5/4 boards I can range from 2,000 to almost 3,000 feet in an 8 hour day. WM LT40 Super Wireless with ED26 edger and a forklift of some sort. That is all edged and dead stacked, slabs in a bundle. When I'm sawing cherry, it's usually 8', 9', and 10' logs, not too big, and usually not the straightest. On the high end, sawing something like 12'-16' tulip poplar that is nice and straight and good diameter, you can really crank it out. It's really hard to pin production numbers down due to so many variables.

[Verticaltrx]

Hudson HFE-21, all manual, 6.5hp

Working by myself, large skid steer and small Kubota loader tractor

Sawing 10-20" EWP and Yellow Poplar, 4/4 siding and 2x framing lumber, 8-12' lengths

About 80bf/hr

[CharlieA]

I can saw ~200 bf/hr by myself with my LT40.  That's with loader time, and any bucking/limbing needed.  It also includes removing and stacking boards.  I usually set up dunnage and set the finished boards on that and pick them up later with the loader.

[78NHTFY]

Like DS said, lots of variables.  Running a manual LT 40 alone with 25 hp, very roughly, I figure on a log an hour--that's loading 3 logs with forks from the log pile onto hydraulic lift (I added it 5 yrs ago) , sawing, unloading 4/4 and 8/4 onto tractor forks, hand-flinging cut offs onto pile.  Still have to sticker every 3 - 4 logs cut, adds another 45 mins.  Slow & steady gets it done. (I tell my customers--"I'm slow, but I'm expensive ;D").  If I have smaller pine logs, say 6 - 8" diameter, I will often put 2 or 3 on the deck, and cut 4 x 4's.  When I'm in the zone, I manage 1000 - 1200 brd' per day (6 - 8 hrs).  When you look at a newly stickered stack at day's end, each row of 4/4 is roughly 40 - 50 brd' (5' x 10' = 50 brd').  My focus going forward is on the material handling--that's what takes time.  If I can load a day's work directly onto a customer's trailer it feels like a weight, literally, has been lifted from my shoulders.  .  Will be doing a 12000 brd' job in a few months--have quoted job by the hour because the off-bearing help the customer described sounds iffy.  All the best, Rob. 

[mikeb1079]

good feedback fellas, keep it comin.  i was especially curious as to production numbers on circular sawmills.  like a frick vs a corley or a meadows....hopefully we can get some circle guys to chime in

[hunz]

Sawing 4/4 on my manual mill  22hp (no hydraulics, no support equipment) 1500- 2000 bdf a day.  Very tired and sore at the end of each day.

I need to hire you out to saw for me if you can lay down those numbers on a manual mill, and zero support equipment! Good grief! I'd say you have efficiency down to a science with your mill.

[ncsawyer]

With a loader to load logs and decent help, I am disappointed if I can't hit 2000 feet in a day on my manual LT 40 cutting 1 and 2 inch lumber. With above average help and a good set up I can get close to 3500 in a day. 

[longtime lurker]

good feedback fellas, keep it comin.  i was especially curious as to production numbers on circular sawmills.  like a frick vs a corley or a meadows....hopefully we can get some circle guys to chime in

I'm not shy, but were doing this in metric.
1 cubic meter = 425 bf, for you non metric people's.

Lucas mill, 1 man, eucalypt species, log sizes from 12 - 36 inches, chasing 8/4 dimension sizes... Usually around 4 cube a day. My logs tend to sit around 40% recovery, and that's a day in day out long term average that includes dock to grade/ length, stack, sticker, argue with the loader, sharpen chainsaws, and find the logs I want in the pile.
Lucas mill, 2 man, eucalypt species, 8/4 dimension sizes... Same as above but production increases to 5.5 cube or thereabouts.
Lucas mill, 3 guys, alla same as above and I can usually hit my 10 cube a day. With three guys I can near run the saw continuously, and keep two men hopping keeping logs up to me and timber going where it needs to. Log handling is the blockage.
Lucas mill, rainforest hardwoods... Add 35% to the above due to better log size and increases recovery.

Gibson "Canadian twin" configuration with 4 knee linebar carriage, grey 2000 series resaw, grey docker with length stops... Same logs, etc but a lot more 4/4 in the recovery.
1 man - 6 cube a day, beer by three o'clock.
2 men - 18.573 cube, this is our normal operating system, and this number is a long term average. We kinda got it to a science, 1 man runs the Canadian and docker, I sit on the grey bench, we both stack, 1 sharpens while the other works the log yard.
4 men - 40 cube, hold up is in the log yard mostly, the grey bench is still starving for want of flitches at times and the number 1 operator has to help stack to clear chains.

Never had 5 on deck to run the production mill flat out, and 3 men seems little different to 2 .

[WellandportRob]

Sawing 4/4 on my manual mill  22hp (no hydraulics, no support equipment) 1500- 2000 bdf a day.  Very tired and sore at the end of each day.

I need to hire you out to saw for me if you can lay down those numbers on a manual mill, and zero support equipment! Good grief! I'd say you have efficiency down to a science with your mill.

I should also mention that those numbers are for top grade logs with an off bearer.  And new boots every 8 wks.

[Ron Wenrich]

I've run several types of circle mills.  My cutting patterns were pretty much the same for the commercial markets.  Jacket boards were normally 4/4 and cut for grade.  The hearts were put into blocking.  Species were primarily red oak, white oak, ash, tulip poplar with minor cutting in white pine, hemlock, black locust, birch, walnut and soft maple.  I normally had an edger.

On a hand mill like a Frick, Meadows, or the like, normal production was about 4-5 Mbf/day.  Support equipment consisted of a 4 wd loader.  We worked 3 men and used dead rolls, and bundled the slabs.  We trimmed the boards with a chainsaw.  Lumber was deadpiled and sent out by the trailerload.  In the summer, we would do some temporary stickering to ward off stain until the load was up.

We then moved to a portable Jackson automatic.  They also put in a debarker and chipper.  That mill only had 2 active dogs.  But, there was also a log turner.  Production was on the 8-10 Mbf/day.  We used a blower for the sawdust and sold by the trailerload.  We added 2 more men.  All equipment ran with diesel power units.  We did run the edger with a hydraulic motor.  We still used dead rolls to move the lumber.  The chips and bark produced offset the cost of installation and the cost of the extra men.

We then moved up to a full auto Morbark mill with a vertical edger.  We used electric in the mill and produced our own electricity.  We had dumps for the slabs, conveyors for the waste and a green chain for the lumber.  Also used computerized setworks.  Same product mix.  Still used a chainsaw for cutoff.  Still used 5 men and production was 12-20 Mbf/day.  Long poplar would bunch up the quickest.  The vertical edger also helped with slab breakdown.  With increased production and quick shipment, staining wasn't much of a problem.

One of the first mill I worked in was a Frick hand mill.  We sawed a lot of tulip poplar at the time, and would routinely get 80-100 Mbf/week.  Men were paid bonus over 80 Mbf.  We had 12 guys working the mill and support.  There was a debarker, chipper, edger, log turner, dead rolls, and trim saw. 

Production is often a function of your product mix.  If you're cutting ties, your production will bundle faster.  Big and long logs will also give better production than small logs.  Black locust was my worst producer since they were small.  We figured out which logs should go to firewood, and which could be sawed profitably.  We kept the junk out of the mill as much as possible. 

My numbers included the time it took to take care of the saw, move lumber, load logs, etc.   I got paid on production for all the time that I spent sawing.  I figured out how to do my saw maintenance where it didn't cut into my production time. 

[Cypress Man]

Running an LT70 wide head 25hp electric DCS with log deck, power conveyor, transfer table, electric edger, two catapiller telehandlers and 4 people we average 3500 to 4000 bf per day cutting cypress lumber. That's approximately 35 to 40 good size logs per day working an 8 hour day.

[Ribsy]

Well, with very little experience, an LT 35 HD and no help and a bad back, dead stacking for the client I am getting between 400 - 600 board feet/day. I recently peaked at about 800.

I did have a young, strong and energetic helper one day and we got 1281 board feet. He didn't last. Said he got pneumonia (what he had was not the same pneumonia that I had gotten 20 years ago) and had to stay home cause he had to take care of his family. I always thought takin care of the family meant going to work!

Wood-mizer advertises 400 board feet/hour on this mill, but with good help and more experience I don't know that I could achieve more than 200. I'm thinkin 1600 to 2,000 in a day on the best of circumstances.

My 2 cents...

Greg

[Magicman]

Those advertised bf sawing numbers are what the sawmill is capable of sawing and do not include any log/lumber handling.  In my opinion they are worthless.

What you are comfortable sawing is all that matters.

[drobertson]

Those advertised bf sawing numbers are what the sawmill is capable of sawing and do not include any log/lumber handling.  In my opinion they are worthless.

What you are comfortable sawing is all that matters.

I will have to say, I've been kinda sitting around waiting on MM's response, and sorry for that Lynn, but respect all you have done for sure.  And will say a pile can be sawn pretty quick with the help handy, and the logs ready, it would blow ones mind really.  Now, everyone getting into it must figure in break downs, slow downs, miscalculations, and the sort, and really figure on what a months worth of sawing will produce, on a steady basis, In my opinion. And figure in if you have hired help, and the cost of the logs, if buying.  It is a business.  I did business stuff for a few years, and the big boys ran me out, with fixing tires on log trucks, buying large tracks of timber, even small tracks,  bidding is a cut throat deal, custom is good for anyone that has a cushion, but with any cushion it gets worn, and thin,
volume is the only answer other than a niche that yields a high profit with a steady clientele,  this is just my opinion on where I'm at, but 2000 ft a day with a hobby mill is pretty good, but most importantly selling whats' sawn that day more important.   

[dustintheblood]

This post will get lots of attention I'm sure, and if you have 2 bucks combined with what I say, you may have enough for a coffee.  After 25+ years sawing using a bandmill, what counts is profit.

1)  I don't care if you're doing 20,000 or 200 board feet per day - are you making money.  I've seen a lot of places that do very little volume, and make boatloads of cash

2)  Production per hour is one thing.  A clean, safe shop with everything in good working order at the end of the day is another.  Any yahhooo can saw like heck and make a mess.  It takes someone good to make big, neat piles consistently - day after day - and have it all tidy and marketable at the end of each.

3)  Quality.  Fast for most equals hitting the cuts hard, or not taking the time to ensure each board's will get the grade and quality.  Making it fast but poor doesn't help with point #1

4)  Tips.  This forum's got a wealth of information about all the best tips and tricks that we've learned the hard way.  Shovels were a great invention, but man oh man, there's gotta be a hundred ideas on here (that work) to replace them   :D


Enjoy your sawing!

[dustintheblood]

Oh yeah... one other thing ----

wanna saw when it's -20 like it is here today?   

production numbers kinda take a hit.  Mine today were a big fat ZERO and will be until it warms up a bit.

[ncsawyer]

You're exactly right dustintheblood,  maximizing anything other than profits will eventually lead to a point of diminishing returns.

[Ron Wenrich]

I've always used the formula of profit = lumber value - log costs - mfg costs.  To maximize, you have to minimize costs and maximize the lumber value.  I've been able to use that as a comparison of mills.  For the most part, the market controls the lumber value and the log costs.  Operators have to work on the margin that's left over.  That means you have to work on the mfg costs, and that usually boils down to efficiency. 

I did work for a guy that was going to make boatloads of money.  His log costs were zero and he was trying to sell his lumber for over $3/bf.  He folded because those numbers looked good on paper, but his mfg costs were way too high.  It came down to his lumber valuation being unrealistic and his production being so pathetic that it didn't support the operation.  You can make a lot of money with good marketing, and that takes a well produced product which often costs more to manufacture as well as those marketing costs.

I'm not sure the intent of this thread, but most of the response was on how much you can produce.  I've seen a lot of different input of capital and labor sawing different types of product from different types of logs.  The answer, to me, has always been it depends.  That's what makes the business interesting.

[mesquite buckeye]

With mesquite I feel like if we get 200bf a day we are OK. With short logs, lots of defect, high harvest costs, high blade costs it is a tough business.

There are days where we are lucky to get 100bf and others where we get over 400. I'm sure we could do a lot better with an edger, but those cost money...   We could probably increase what we do by at least 50% with an edger. Probably over half the day is spent edging and end trimming short boards. :(