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Air drying Red Pine in Minnesota

Started by ckjohnson99, February 20, 2015, 06:41:14 PM

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ckjohnson99

In a few weeks, I'm going to fell a number of Red Pine for a log home. The logs will be sent to a contractor and I'll be left with a lot of tops that I plan to have sawed (on site by a local guy with a portable mill) into 1" x 6" x 10' for t/g paneling. The rough sawed 1x6 will then spend a year in a lean-to shed that has a roof and good air-flow. After a year when construction actually starts on the log home, I'll have it planed and milled. My estimate is about 2,000-3,000 board feet in total.

Reading this forum made me think of a few questions about the air drying process:

1. What do I use for stickers? (The only dry lumber sitting around is some 1x4 and 2x4 pine and aspen; also have access to standing birch, aspen, basswood and red oak)
2. When stacking, do I place long edges tight together or leave a 1" gap between each board?
3. Make the stack four feet wide? Or does it matter?
4. Make the stack four feet high? Or does it matter?
5. How far apart do I place the stickers? (I'm thinking a few inches in from each end then two feet apart)
6. Weigh the top with slabs?

Thanks for your patience dealing with a newbie.
1973 TreeFarmer Log Skidder with Cable Winch, Cat D4C LGP, Bobcat 763H, Husqvarna 455

Amateurs built the Ark;
Professionals built the Titanic.

Darrel

If all the lumber is 10' long consistently, put stickers as close to the ends as possible. This may help some with checking.  For pine every two feet is fine, anyway it is for the ponderosa pine that grows here on the west coast. For stickers use what you have that is dry, but get it ripped to 1x1 or 1x3/4. Just make sure that all stickers are of a consistent thickness and that when stacked, all stickers are lined up, one above the other. In other words, straight up and down.  Spaces between the boards is good, but not mandatory.  As for width and hight of stacks, whatever fits nicely in your drying shed will be fine.  Here on the west coast the industry normally makes there stacks 4' high by 4' wide. Weight on top is nice, right now I have the slabs cut off the outside of the logs thrown on top with sticker between them and the top layer. People ask me what I'm going to use them for and I just say firewood once they're dry.

And, welcome to the forum!
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

beenthere

Being red pine boards out of tree tops, I'd sticker at least 18" if not 12".

24" fine for dimension, but you want to hold your boards to as flat as possible seeing as you will likely run them through several surfacing machines to get the T&G.  There will be enough localized warp around the knots to cause anxiety, don't need more than that amount if you can avoid it. IMO
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

WDH

I agree with BT.  I would sticker on 16".  That is 8 stickers per layer.  Also, keep stacks to a max of 4' wide so that the boards get good air and dry without mold and mildew.  You can use a fan to insure good air flow for 4 or 5 weeks.  Will make a big difference. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

By July, the wood will be as dry as it is going to get...about 12% MC.  In your house, the wood will dry to a wintertime low around 6% MC.  This drying between your air dry shed and the home will result in about 1% size shrinkage in width.  Can you tolerate a gap of about 1/16" between adjacent pieces?  If not, you will have to use a kiln or other drying chamber to achieve 10% MC.

Note the red pine is quite prone to warping, especially twisting and side bend, so you really do need closer sticker spacing.  Even then, you will have some losses.  In fact, consider that after the pieces are sawn, do not edge them, but dry them un-edged.  Then after drying, rip them to the size you need, plus add the T&G.  Much of the warp you would normally get will not be so much that you lose much yield at all.  Top weights are good, but are rarely used.  The weight required for substantial be fit iq. 

In answer to your questions, why not buy some dry 1x2 (3/4" x 1-1/2" actual) at the local lumberyard.

For a narrow pile (6' wide or less), there is no benefit in leaving a gap between the pieces.  In fact, the gap will allow the pieces to side bend more easily.  So, do not do it.

A pile 4' wide is fine so long as it is not very high (six to eight feet) as the pile we begin to get very tippy.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

barbender

You will want dry stickers, I always cut mine 1x1. Red pine is very prone to sticker stain and mold in my experience. I would rather stack it out in the open with a cover of sorts on the pile, than in a shed. Also, make sure all the sawdust is swept off the boards before stacking, residual sawdust encourages mold. My .02 ;)
Too many irons in the fire

ckjohnson99

Thanks for all the advice. I think the most important thing I learned is to space my stickers much closer than I would have first thought.

I'm heading up north this weekend to get these trees cut and sawed and stacked. Wish me luck!
1973 TreeFarmer Log Skidder with Cable Winch, Cat D4C LGP, Bobcat 763H, Husqvarna 455

Amateurs built the Ark;
Professionals built the Titanic.

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

Red pine is very prone to warp, especially for lumber cut from near the center of the log.  Spiral grain is a major reason why, along with compression wood.  So, closer sticker spacing is good, along with very heavy top weights on the pile.

It is really too bad that foresters, when thinking of replanting pines in the mid 20th century after the native  white pines were cut, didn't consider the wood quality that red pine has.  Growth rate seems to have dominated their thinking.

So, I again encourage you to edge or rip after drying, not before.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

ckjohnson99

After seven long days of work, I have completed Phase I of our log home: meet with the log contractor to pick trees, cut logs and saw lumber for eventual T&G. I learned a number of things:


  • Hire good help, pay them and feed them well. Besides a couple of brothers, I had Rodney with the Woodmizer, Rodney's nephew Chip (rather appropriate name but think Incredible Hulk), and Ken a professional logger. I learned a lot from these guys; especially Ken.


  • Don't try to hurry ANYTHING. Ken did the felling of the big trees. He dropped over sixty trees exactly where he wanted them every time. Although it only took him about 45 seconds to actually fell a tree, he spent a lot of time sizing up the trees, planning for 3-5 tree groups for skidding, and keeping them clean to the mill then our landing area. He even took the time to show me how to sharpen my chain saw the right way!


  • Getting the dust off the boards during stacking was the most time consuming process of the whole week.
Thanks for all the advice. Now on to Phase II!


Logs ready for hauling; 70 total, most around 40' but some over 50'
 

Rodney and Chip sawing the tops; mostly 1x6 12 feet and some 8 feet
 

Lumber stacked for air drying: just over 8000 bf sawed in 3.5 days
 
1973 TreeFarmer Log Skidder with Cable Winch, Cat D4C LGP, Bobcat 763H, Husqvarna 455

Amateurs built the Ark;
Professionals built the Titanic.

WDH

Wow, what a whack of lumber.  That poor sawhorse looks like it is trying to run away.  It was probably as worn out as y'all were. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Dave Shepard

I think that sawhorse's get up and run, got up and ran already. :D

That's a heck of a whack of lumber. :)
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

thecfarm

Probably that poor saw horse is saying,there is no way you will be putting every piece of lumber on me to saw them up. Now there's some lumber.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

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