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Using aluminium sticker for air drying

Started by Dough_baker, February 18, 2015, 03:09:27 AM

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Dough_baker

Hello,

Now I am using kiln dried 1*2 pine sticker for air drying 8/4 white oak and black walnut. When I checked some half year dried lumber, found there is stickering stain on them, especially white oak. Maybe it caused by mold development under stickers, where is really damp, even after a few months.

To solve this problem, try to, I bought a kind of aluminium sticker, of which the original purpose use is not for wood drying, but I think its shape really suitable, voids allow more air flow, and mold don't develop on aluminium.



As far as I know, aluminium dose not react with tanin in oak, right?  Vaccum kilns also use aluminium heating plates.

Do you think is safe and effective to use this kind of aluminium sticker?

Best,
Baker

Dough_baker

The dimension of aluminium sticker is 30mm*30mm

LeeB

Hello Dough_baker. Welcome to the forum. I can't help too much with your question but others will. Tell us a little bit about yourself and where you are from.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Magicman

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Dough_baker.  I do not know the cost or availability, but it should be an absolute "one time" expense.

You bake cookies too?  ???
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

scsmith42

from a stain perspective I don't see why it wouldn't work but it's a bit thick for kiln drying (usually 3/4" stickers are used - ie 18mm).  Plus the cost would probably be prohibitive if you needed a lot of them (I sticker on 18" centers - sometimes 12" for really valuable material.  That's a lot of stickers...)

On your KD pine stickers, if you treat them with a fungicide such as Premier it should prevent the stain from developing.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

The problem with some aluminum stickers is that they are too slippery, so lumber moves easily.  This would be especially critical if using a forklift to move.

Sticker stain is not caused by the sticker, but by the slow drying under the sticker.  So, any large contact area with any material or using wet wood stickers, which would slow drying in the contact area, would not be good.  For that reason, wood stickers are often made with one or more channels to help drying under the sticker.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Dough_baker

Quote from: LeeB on February 18, 2015, 04:09:56 AM
Hello Dough_baker. Welcome to the forum. I can't help too much with your question but others will. Tell us a little bit about yourself and where you are from.

Glad to meet you Lee : ) I own and operate a small scale construction material and wood furniture business in Shanghai, China. Sometimes, there are custom orders for wood furniture, especially live edge type, so I regularly buy logs and then mill and dry them.

Dough_baker

Quote from: Magicman on February 18, 2015, 08:22:45 AM
Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Dough_baker.  I do not know the cost or availability, but it should be an absolute "one time" expense.

You bake cookies too?  ???

Pleased to meet you Magicman : ) I found two models in hardware shop, maybe there are more, 30*30 and 30*60, a one-metre-long 30*30 sticker costs about 3.5 USD. A little expensive I am afraid...

Yes, the durability and strength meet heavy duty requires.

Do you like baking cookies ? I have only baked basic bread dough, just flour, salt, yeast, water included.

Dough_baker

Quote from: scsmith42 on February 18, 2015, 09:35:39 AM
from a stain perspective I don't see why it wouldn't work but it's a bit thick for kiln drying (usually 3/4" stickers are used - ie 18mm).  Plus the cost would probably be prohibitive if you needed a lot of them (I sticker on 18" centers - sometimes 12" for really valuable material.  That's a lot of stickers...)

On your KD pine stickers, if you treat them with a fungicide such as Premier it should prevent the stain from developing.

Thanks for your advice : ) Cost is the main problem, it will take thousands dollars to replace all the stickers in my warehouse. Even if I choose to do so, it must be a phased plan.

I will try to treat all lumber with boron, which is available here, as fungicide.


Dough_baker

Quote from: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on February 18, 2015, 03:12:13 PM
The problem with some aluminum stickers is that they are too slippery, so lumber moves easily.  This would be especially critical if using a forklift to move.

Sticker stain is not caused by the sticker, but by the slow drying under the sticker.  So, any large contact area with any material or using wet wood stickers, which would slow drying in the contact area, would not be good.  For that reason, wood stickers are often made with one or more channels to help drying under the sticker.

Thanks for you reply, Dr Wengert : ) I have seen the stickers you mentioned in this Forum, channels on both top and bottom sides, allow extra air flow.

Slip of lumber could cause huge damage, I didn't realise this before, thank you. In my warehouse, once, a forklift moved 3 stacks together, at the very beginning, stacks swung a bit for half a minute after forklift totally stopped, if aluminium stickers were used, these lumber must fall to ground...


YellowHammer

I use my own "H" style sticker and wouldn't go back to a solid rectangular sticker again, as my instances of sticker stain has all but disappeared for most species.

I notice you said you are using 1 inch by 2 inch stickers, if the wide 2 inch side is touching the boards, that will certainly contribute to stain in many cases. 

I would worry about the aluminum stickers and their extremely smooth extruded contact surfaces not letting moisture escape.

YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

GeneWengert-WoodDoc

Sticker stain is not caused by a fungus, but is the oxidation of starches and sugars in the wood.  So, using a borate on stickers is a waste of time and money.  Again, the oxidation is enhanced by slow drying.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Dough_baker

Quote from: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on February 18, 2015, 11:39:51 PM
Sticker stain is not caused by a fungus, but is the oxidation of starches and sugars in the wood.  So, using a borate on stickers is a waste of time and money.  Again, the oxidation is enhanced by slow drying.

Understood, thank you Dr Wengert. The task is to speed up drying under sticker, I should read more reference on this issue.

I really stock some borate to treat powderpost beetles, but normally only brush on sapwood part rather than all the surface of the lumber.

Dough_baker

Quote from: YellowHammer on February 18, 2015, 10:07:11 PM
I use my own "H" style sticker and wouldn't go back to pure a solid rectangular sticker as stain has all but disappeared for most species.

I notice you said you are using 1 inch by 2 inch stickers, if the wide 2 inch side is touching the boards, that will certainly contribute to stain in many cases. 

I would worry about he aluminum stickers and their extremely smooth extruded contact surfaces not letting moisture escape.

YH

Hello Yellowhammer, Do you make the H type stickers by yourself with router? I will look for some mill who take custom made order of thousand pieces.

YellowHammer

Quote from: Dough_baker on February 18, 2015, 11:55:18 PM
Quote from: YellowHammer on February 18, 2015, 10:07:11 PM
I use my own "H" style sticker and wouldn't go back to pure a solid rectangular sticker as stain has all but disappeared for most species.

I notice you said you are using 1 inch by 2 inch stickers, if the wide 2 inch side is touching the boards, that will certainly contribute to stain in many cases. 

I would worry about he aluminum stickers and their extremely smooth extruded contact surfaces not letting moisture escape.

YH

Hello Yellowhammer, Do you make the H type stickers by yourself with router? I will look for some mill who take custom made order of thousand pieces.

I use a power feed and dado head on a 5 hp table saw.  The feed runs at about a hundred feet per minute.  Here's a short video of me making the stickers, I have thousands of them, its not very exciting, but its essential time spent to help me have a quality lumber product.  They are made from my kiln dried cull boards.
YH
http://youtu.be/jcrfH66gBI4
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Southside

Yellow Hammer,

Would that power feeder work on a jointer or shaper as well?
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Dough_baker

The efficiency is really impressive Yellow Hammer  :o

YellowHammer

Quote from: Southside logger on February 20, 2015, 12:16:18 AM
Yellow Hammer,

Would that power feeder work on a jointer or shaper as well?

Yes, this model has articulated joints that let it work with them.  Once I got a power feeder, I found out real quick I would not like to run a table saw again without one.  To me, it would be like using a planer that didn't have power feed.
YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Southside

Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

YellowHammer

Quote from: Southside logger on February 20, 2015, 09:40:02 PM
What is it? Do tell please...
Its a Powermatic PF31, single phase 1 hp, continuous duty.  It has 4 speeds with reverse for jams. The table saw it's mounted on was selected because its 5 hp, and has a reinforced wing for a router mount, which was a perfect place to mount the power feed.  I also use it for cleaning up and trimming crooked boards before I put them on the rack.  I can not say how much lumber I've run through it, but miles wouldn't be an overstatement.  This rig is a mainstay in my shop and gets used hard, for many hours at a time.
For example, I use it to turn this pile of defective cherry lumber  (you can see the table saw power feed in the background):


 

Into this pallet full of trimmed, ready to sell product:


 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

LeeB

Is that the power feed waving at us?  :D :D
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

YellowHammer

Yep, she's the my other "power feeder," off bearer, forklift and loader operator, cashier, tour guide, ranch hand and and general brains of the outfit. ;D
YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

WDH

YH,

Wait a minute.....  For a second there, I could swear that there was a small gap between two of those stickers as you were feeding them.  On second thought, no.  Must have been my imagination  :D. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

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