Accuset / weird board thickness issue

Kipper · February 15, 2015, 08:17:22 PM

So today I was sawing 3/4 x 8 boards for a fence order and ran into a weird issue. Every third or fourth board would turn up about 5/8 thick. I set the 12" calibration setting in on the accuset and it looked like it was off by about 1/8 in. I also adjusted the kerf setting from .090 to .110. After changing the kerf setting it seemed to help. Just wondering if anyone else has seen this issue and if so how they fixed it?

mesquite buckeye · February 15, 2015, 08:25:40 PM

I've had my accuset do some weird stuff sometimes. If everything on the masts and the transducer are clean that seems to help. If it really goes crazy I shut off the power and restart it. That often helps.

terrifictimbersllc · February 15, 2015, 09:05:10 PM

X2 on clean. And remove sawdust buildup and keep gain and mast lubed. Be familiar with expected heights at each drop and watch that it goes back up the tiny bit at each drop or stop and recheck before making the cut. Yes I've seen weird stuff but 95% of time it's perfect and I try to catch it when it's not.

POSTON WIDEHEAD · February 15, 2015, 09:43:54 PM

My positioning sensor went bad on my simple set. I was sawing all kind of thicknesses until I replaced it.

drobertson · February 15, 2015, 09:54:12 PM

Yea, I've seen some weird stuff that way. the transducer is clean, the cant is flat and the numbers on the screen are where they should be, but I get a thick board, which lead to a thin board on the alternating cut. So, what is it, when you figure it out please let me know!
I've been there for a while, with no real issues, but it is an issue with me, I believe it's the wood. And will say most folks don't measure that many boards, they just saw. Nothing wrong with this but not how I do it. Most every board is for a specific purpose. I will say I've learn a pile on stickering and when one is to pick up and build right away, this is not always the case, Sticker, sticker, sticker! A stack could be a stack for a while. seen it, too many times now,

Kipper · February 21, 2015, 08:47:22 PM

Well, I cleaned some dust off of the silver rod located beside the measuring tape ( i assume this is the transducer?). The mast is cleaned and oiled with ATF, and the chain is lubed with ATF and has no more than 3/4 deflection. In the attached picture, the sixth board from the top came out at 5/8 when all the others were spot on at 3/4. What is the gain and how would I lube it? Where would the positioning sensor be? When the head comes down on auto-down it levels out or raises up slightly like it always has. Something I did notice is the LED readout of the blade height will sometimes go back and fourth between the height numbers. For instance if it lands on 4 7/8 it will start out reading at 4 7/8 and then jump between 4 7/8 and 4 28/32 during the cut, any ideas what this may be?

Thanks,
Kip

Kipper · February 21, 2015, 08:50:03 PM

wrong picture before.

This should be the right one.

drobertson · February 21, 2015, 09:38:16 PM

yea, lots of ideas, my first suggestion would be to, as you already have, check all the connections on the cables,, duh? then go below and check the locking nut and flat washer that tightens the double roller chain that holds the head. You might find a slack, and you might find where the tension has caused a depression in the main tube frame. Chain your head to the top, lower slightly to hold the head and add a good washer or adequate spacer to give a good bearing surface for the nut to tighten against. and then try again, if this is not it, replace the splitter cable, I had issues for nearly, just say years, very intermittent. And then learn the accuset and use the pattern mode, lots better, you can alternate between auto up, and pattern with no waste boards, If you have not already of course,,

jcbrotz · February 22, 2015, 04:14:00 AM

Quote from: Kipper on February 21, 2015, 08:50:03 PM
wrong picture before.

This should be the right one.

Can we get a pic of the side of that stack? Is it the same sizes near the clamp could all be stress related when sawing in that fashion.

slider · February 22, 2015, 09:36:12 AM

What I am seeing is a fat dog board in the picture.I would try resetting at 12 and sawing in the pattern mode.I have never had this happen in the middle of the cant unless it was due to stress.

drobertson · February 22, 2015, 09:38:44 AM

Quote from: slider on February 22, 2015, 09:36:12 AM
What I am seeing is a fat dog board in the picture.I would try resetting at 12 and sawing in the pattern mode.I have never had this happen in the middle of the cant unless it was due to stress.

This is a very good point, and makes sense if the head is not calibrated for sure,,

terrifictimbersllc · February 22, 2015, 10:45:52 AM

First regarding fat bottom board, could be a "set at 12" adjustment needed of course. Also you don't say whether you're using the auto down mode, or the "set to bed" mode. If it's the auto down mode, of course the last board doesn't have to come out right. If it is set to bed, then there would be some "weird accuset" result.

If you haven't the best route is to get a conversation going with WM tech service, electrical, in Indy.

First let me say I love Accuset II. I have tried to saw "off the scale" once when I tore the cable and while I like to think about the "old times", that's not one of them. :D

In all of my Accuset II sawing I am always watching for that blade to "come back up just a little bit", and also for the cut to look right both on the display setting and visually on the cant before the blade goes in. Once in a while I am stopping the blade after an inch or so cut and backing it out to double check. Not that I have many problems but yes there is a "weird" result once in a while and I've got to make sure it doesn't result in ruining a customer's board.

I have also seen weird "cycling" type issue where the head is going up and down repeatedly by a few 32nds during a cut.

It happened occasionally, during a period of a week or so's sawing, a year or so ago. This was in the "set to bed" mode, and I'm thinking it happened only at a particular set pattern (say for example all 1-1/8" boards, but not the other set patterns, AND also at only ONE particular height in that pattern.

When this "weird cycling" was happening, I was wondering, is this a case of "accuset can't decide how to round off at a 32nd?". We know accuset only acts at 1/32 increments and must have some logic as to whether to round off one way or another to the nearest 32nd. I was thinking maybe it couldn't decide for some reason, that there maybe is a particular "Bermuda Triangle" of kerf setting and pattern setting, maybe coupled with one or more other factors, which makes up an "Accuset Bermuda Triangle" :D :D :D , which results in "cycling" of a few 32nds, more than just +/- 1/32nd, because of the programming that also allows the head to go below then come back up to any final number.

Contrary to best practices of rigorous observation I didn't write down the kerf, pattern, and height, and the problem went away. I'd suggest that if this is happening, you change the kerf by only one or two thousandths and see if that makes a difference. But take notes and by all means call WM to get a conversation going.

rooster 58 · February 22, 2015, 11:13:22 AM

Check your mast bearings. I started picking up fat boards here and there. I couldn't figure it out until I I inspected the mast and found a bad bearing. After I replaced it and sawed a few hundred feet, even was back to normal ;)

MartyParsons · February 22, 2015, 11:52:38 AM

Hello,
Just for a check. Remove the kerf from the setting. This would be zero. Adjust the scale on the mill so the last cut is 1". Adjust the saw head to the 4 qtr mark standard qtr scale. Set the pattern mode to 1 1/8" and check the drops with the scale. The distance between each mark on 4 qtr standard qtr is 1 1/8". 10" is the magic number if you are doing 1" lumber. FYI
See if it comes out correctly.
Accuset is accurate to 1/32" in the book.

You can do this test with the engine running and with engine off and even with the blade engaged engine running.
You should also try just pushing the drum switch down, let it set, down again and see if it hits the mark every time. Then try drum switch down, let it set raise head, then repeat.
I would check the scale mounting make sure it is not loose.

Hope this helps.

Marty

Kipper · February 22, 2015, 12:39:59 PM

Thank you all! Just to clarify and I should have earlier, I knew the bottom board was going to be thicker. The sixth board down was the only one I didn't expect. Thanks Marty, I will try that and report back.

Magicman · February 22, 2015, 02:31:21 PM

I hesitate to post this observance that has nothing to do with Accuset or any thickness issues, but I would never saw through a cant that was that far off centered. You are setting yourself up for many crooked boards.

Ga Mtn Man · February 22, 2015, 02:36:55 PM

Perhaps it was just a "for testing purposes only" cant.

Kipper · February 22, 2015, 08:01:40 PM

Believe it or not it was a test piece. I got so frustrated while I was cutting the fence boards I decided to throw that one up there to test out. I performed the test Marty suggested today and the machine landed on the 4 mark every time. I have always worked using the auto down feature, I tried to use the pattern today and struggled. I have to admit I was in a little bit of a hurry but will definently try it in the future. Thanks to everyone who has helped with this. I will keep you posted as I saw more.

Magicman · February 22, 2015, 09:51:45 PM

Quote from: Kipper on February 22, 2015, 08:01:40 PM
Believe it or not it was a test piece.

Good. I can sleep well tonight. :D

drobertson · February 22, 2015, 10:45:50 PM

I will go out on a limb tonight, an not a bit ashamed of it, I have for over several months now been sawing out a cabin, and other jobs in the middle. My accuset has shown very similar results. I have not called wmz because there is no error to report or anything else I could tell them. I've seen enough numbers on the screen to know the readout is where it should be corresponding with the drop in pattern mode, (ones that use pattern) should know what I'm speaking of, and have sawn a pile of boards, that when a thinny comes in, and the numbers on screen are there, kerf is spot on, head calibrated, of course, cant is flat, which all should be aware of! I am, and then I get a 1/8" thick or thin board, "iffy" as to consistent lumber. Which leads us to the allowable tolerances of the sellable lumber. So If it's good enough for the buyer, then sell it, if not, try and fix it, or cull the "mis-cuts" for the customer, save them and move on, I had to rant,
david, 2000 bdft a day is a good day all things considered; and it is work, hot or cold, better hot than cold in my opinion. ;D a southern boy thing I suppose ;D

Ohio_Bill · February 22, 2015, 11:58:15 PM

Pattern Mode is a wonderful thing if you know what you are wanting out of a log . It will save dozens of trim cuts each day .

Percy · February 23, 2015, 12:36:19 AM

On my 2003 LT70 upgraded with accuset 2, I have a similar condition on occasion. May be different problem than yours. When in pattern mode or auto down, occasionally I get a momentary error message on my display. If you are watching the cut you will miss it. If the error message happens when you are raising the head to gig back, during auto down, the whole sequence is lost so accuset doesn't remember the last cut so everything is out. In pattern, if the error happens while the head is dropping to the next programmed cut, you will get a miscut. I have determined on my mill that the connector at the bottom of the transducer rod gets loose from time to time.