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Humanities to Forestry - Questions

Started by Fil, February 03, 2015, 11:12:54 PM

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Fil

Hello all!

I have been lurking around here a few weeks before finally registering a few days ago. I admire for how friendly of a community the Forestry Forum is, and I feel welcomed before even meeting any of you.

I have a few questions if you all don't mind answering. I have read the other threads about education on this board, so a few of my questions have all ready been answers. I am an 25 year old undergrad at the University of Oklahoma. I am classified as a junior, but I will not graduate for another two years or so; I work full-time for NAPA Auto Parts. My original career path was to enter law school for constitutional law, but I have done a lot of introspective reflection and have become inclined to seek out my teenage idea of environmental conservation/forestry. I have researched forestry for the past few months, and I think I am set on at least the field as a hobby.

So without further adieu, allow me to present my questions:

I ) My degree is Letters-Constitutional Studies http://cas.ou.edu/letters. It is an interdisciplinary degree that focuses on the humanities and law. Do you foresee this being a stumbling block for enter graduate school for forestry?

II ) I am considering a minor in Interdisciplinary Perspectives on the Environment http://ipe.ou.edu/minor.htm. The minor offers a plethora of classes I could take. What type of classes would be most beneficial, and what classes do you advise to steer away from?

List of Classes:
QuoteThe core courses are:
IPE 1013 Consumption and the Environment [III-SS]
IPE 4003 Senior Practicum

The three electives consist of one course each from approved lists of humanities, social science, and natural science courses.

APPROVED HUMANITIES COURSES

ENGL 4453 Literature and Landscape
ENGL 4723 Emerson, Thoreau and Whitman
HIST 3493 American Environmental History [IV-WC]
HSCI 3473 History of Ecology and Environmentalism [IV-WC]
NAS 3113 Native American Philosophy [IV-NW]
PHIL 3293 Environmental Ethics [IV-WC]

APPROVED SOCIAL SCIENCE COURSES

ANTH 4103 People and Plants [III-SS]
ANTH 4533 Human Ecology of the Humid Tropics
GEOG 3253 Environmental Conservation [III-SS]
GEOG 3563 Geography of Natural Resources
P SC 3233 Environmental Policy & Administration
P SC 4233 Science, Technology, & Public Policy

APPROVED NATURAL SCIENCE COURSES

BOT 2404 Ecology & Environmental Quality [II-Lab]
BOT 3453 Principles of Plant Ecology
BOT 4553 Plant Geography
ES 4463 Environmental Evaluation and Management
GEOG 1114 Physical Geography [II-Lab]
GEOG 4283 Biogeography
GEOL 3154 Environmental Geology
GEOS 2004 Evolution of the Earth System [II-Lab]
METR 1014 Introduction to Weather and Climate [II-Lab]
ZOO 3403 Principles of Ecology
ZOO 4093 Behavioral Ecology

III ) Does attending the best colleges for forestry matter? In the legal field, if you do not attend a top law school than you are usually stuck in your school's region. Are forestry degrees/jobs versatile? I have visited Virginia the past three years (family vacations & personal interest in Monticello/Thomas Jefferson). Would Virginia Tech be a practical school to attend, or would my credentials keep me from being admitted?

IV ) What books would you recommend for me to read? I currently have "The Tree" by Colin Tudge. I am particularly interested in Virginia Tech's M.F. in Forest Soils, Silviculture, and Ecology. Book recommendations in these areas of study would be greatly appreciated.

V ) What are the best methods of identifying trees? I am a mere amateur, but I find identifying trees to be quite enjoyable. I have a small pocket book that does the trick for a few common trees, but I would like something more extensive and user friendly. Any suggestions?

VI ) What are your favorite trees to study/plant/work with? I have a particular fascination with oak trees right now. I am not sure why, but a mighty oak is simply mystifying.


Many thanks for your time reading this!

clearcut

Lots of questions, you have clearly though about this quite a bit.

I) Degree - Quickly looking over the course list, it appears light in the math and sciences. There didn't appear to be any statistics course requirements. That will make it challenging to qualify for a graduate degree in forestry. That being said, there are programs that focus on the more social aspects of forestry. Most of the people that I know that have gone this route arrived there via the Peace Corps, and ended up in the US Forest Service or other government positions.

II) IPE - Most of these classes listed focus on the socialogical aspects of forestry. These may be relevant depending on the type of program that you wish to join. There are jobs in natural resources policy analysis - like carbon cap and trade - that  are forestry related.

III) Schools that have strong alumni programs, and have alumni in hiring positions, give you a leg up when applying for a job. Schools with a reputation for delivering strong candidates into the work force do give you an advantage, but I think it is less crucial than in the legal profession.

IV) A Sand County Almanac by Aldo Leopold.

V) Tree ID - Practice - practice - practice. Nothing works as well as going out in the woods and identifying every tree you see, either with someone who knows or with a very good field guide. Which field guide is a personal choice. I've always preferred drawings over photos. Virginia Tech makes a tree id app.

VI) Species - any one that makes a log. I do have a fondness for sequoia, both coast and giant, and incense cedar.

Best of luck.
Carbon sequestered upon request.

Fil

Thanks for the swift reply Clearcut!

The Letters degree certainly does not offer much in the way of math and science courses. Those are typically left for the electives if a student chooses. I am not very strong in math, but I make a valiant effort at it. As for jobs, US Forest Service would be fantastic, but I understand the Forestry Service has either cut jobs or remains stagnate. Not great prospects if that is true.

As far as math and science are concerned, aside from statistics what specific classes would you all suggest? I have a few electives I can use towards math and science courses. Or will it not matter since my degree is a humanities degree?

Thanks again for the reply!

BaldBob

Quote from: Fil on February 04, 2015, 01:26:09 AM

As far as math and science are concerned, aside from statistics what specific classes would you all suggest?

I can't imagine anyone doing well in forestry or ecology without a firm grounding in plant physiology and soil science, and both of these may be very difficult without a good background in both organic and inorganic chemistry.  You might be able to get by in the social aspect of forestry/ecology without these ( and stats), but will have little credibility if you don't have a good understanding of the science behind forestry management actions. If you are going to look for work in field forestry a good understanding of trig is also important.

WDH

Virginia Tech is a top notch Forestry School.  The University of Georgia is another good one.  Oklahoma State has a program.  Arkansas, Texas A&M, and Missouri also have programs. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

mesquite buckeye

The baby boomers are retiring. There will be jobs. Don't expect to get rich working in forestry.

To get into graduate school they will give you a list of deficiencies that you will need to have completed that won't count towards your graduate degree.

Try to get some summer hire jobs to see if this is really what you want to do for a career.

Best of luck. ;D
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Texas Ranger

In short, in my opinion, you will not qualify for a graduate forestry program with your undergraduate credentials.  You will be lacking in the basics as pointed out by others.  I graduated from Missouri School of Forestry, which is now the school of environmental science.  Others from other Universities.  All have their following, but, the eastern universities seem to be the most prestigious, but basically the choice is where to you want to live?  Most programs are localized.  For example, at Mizzou we studied hardwoods more than pines, location, location, location.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

Fil

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. I truly appreciate the honesty in your responses. Sometimes you need to hear the hard truths to make the right decisions.

I do still have an interest in silviculture as a hobby. Any words of wisdom for this endeavor?

Also, should I proceed with environment law law, I would like to know the problems you all see "on the ground" that lawyers and politicians typically ignore or don't take note of. One of the key issues I've read on here are politicians/lawyers not allowing for natural forest burns to rid the underbrush and keep the forests healthy. I'd like to learn from you all, so thanks for any information you may have!

BradMarks

For what it's worth:  Enviromental Law quickly morph's into "enviro lawyers". Every political action environmental group has a few on staff.  Sue for this, sue for that.  Or defend this or that from the other side.  Which side you may take depends on your inner values, but there are certainly jobs out there.

mesquite buckeye

If you want to practice silviculture you don't need to go to school. Read the available literature, get some land and have at it. You can learn more in the woods than you ever could get in school if you pay attention. You are young enough to see the results of your work a couple of times over during your lifetime. ;D
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

CJennings

I'm working on my last semester (I hope) for an MF at UMaine. You might be able to get in, sort of, to an MF program. My undergrad degree was in history but I did take stats, chemistry and a couple science courses before coming here. You're lacking a chemistry, statistics and a biology course off the top of my head and after a quick glance at your list. If you struggle with math work on it hard, there's a lot of math involved in forestry.

You could probably make a lot more money as a lawyer, but that decision is one you have to make. Quite a few of the environmental groups that hire lawyers are hostile towards management of forests for timber so that's something to consider (I'm knowingly painting with a broad brush here, I'm not saying all of them are).

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