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Questions about Burls

Started by Sawmill Woman, January 27, 2015, 11:23:42 PM

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Sawmill Woman

We recently acquired a burl.  Its about 30" each way.  We don't know anything about burls except for a great thread I read on here, but we had a few questions:  First, how can we find out what the burl is worth?  I know burls are used for furniture, but is 30" big enough for people to really be able to use it?  Also, if we were to mill it and sell it in pieces, would that be better than trying to sell it whole?  Lastly, are there any web sites for people who use burls where we could advertise it for sale?

Thanks in advance. 
Wealth gotten by vanity shall be diminished: but he that gathereth by labour shall increase. --Proverbs 13:11

4x4American

There's a guy that advertises on Eastern Loggers that he buys burls.  Believe he's from down your way too.
Boy, back in my day..

mesquite buckeye

Welcome to the Forestry Forum. :)
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

qbilder

I had a thread started that I hoped would open a discussion about this very type of question, but it seems the admin has removed it for some reason. One of the reasons I have a sawmill in the first place is because of burls and other misc. woods & cuts that aren't typically available. Each burl being unique and with so many factors to consider, folks often find themselves bewildered at how to handle them. I was hoping the other thread would generate a discussion that would rope in a broad range of thoughts & experience to maybe at least form some general guidelines for folks to reference.

Anywho, a 30" burl is a pretty fair size. It's the perfect size for hobby crafts from bowls & other turnings to small slab top tables & lamps & such. Value would really be dictated by how solid & healthy the burl is, as well as the type of figure present. If it's a swirly eye burl, it'll be worth more than a simple bulbous growth, because it will have spectacular grain patterns. It's fairly easy to get an idea before it's cut, as the swirly eye burl will have a very bumpy, blistered exterior. A less than appealing burl will look like a swollen lump, and the grain inside looks about the same. Sorry there's really not a lot of info available. Hopefully this helps you a little. 

       
God bless our troops

beenthere

The admins are sharp and on their toes..  8)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

qbilder

Quote from: beenthere on January 28, 2015, 11:34:14 AM
The admins are sharp and on their toes..  8)

Did something go south? It was fine 2 days ago. Today, gone. 
God bless our troops

Sawmill Woman

The husband is dying to cut into it.  I don't know how much longer the burl will make it.
Wealth gotten by vanity shall be diminished: but he that gathereth by labour shall increase. --Proverbs 13:11

5quarter

   I don't appreciate my reply, which took some time and thought to write, being summarily deleted. fortunately I save a copy of all my posts. With a little editing, I'll repost it here for sawmill woman and others.

   I have to say, I've bought plenty of burl from sellers on ebay, but they have all been either veneer slices or waxed blanks. Personally, I would never buy an uncut burl unless I was able to personally examine it, and even then I would not pay very much, as I am only guessing that it might have some value. until it's cut, the figure cannot be proven. and if the figure can't be proven, I'm not opening my wallet.
To maximize the potential value, you should cut and process your burl for it to be worth anything. If it  turns out to be fabulous, you may get a lot more than than simply selling it whole. If its nothing special, then you can sleep easy knowing you didn't rip anyone off. all I do is slice mine into quarters; first cut parallel to the trunk, the second perpendicular to the trunk. coat the exposed faces in paraffin wax and put each one in a paper sack filled with planer shavings. If I planned on selling my burls, I would cut it in half only and maybe sand or joint one of the exposed surfaces, depending on it's size, before sealing them. That way, the buyer can get a good look at what he's buying. I've bought a couple small ones this way myself and was not disappointed.
Qbuilder, with a few exceptions, there really shouldn't be a market for uncut burl. either the buyer will be ripped off because he undersold a beautiful specimen or the seller gets ripped off because he's paid good $$ for junk.
my 2 cents.

Sawmill woman...welcome. perhaps you could get up a few pictures. What species is it?
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

qbilder

I require 1.5"x1.5"x18" turning squares for my work. That is not an easy size to find in burl. Not only must the piece be solid and free of cracks, but it must be heavily figured its entire length, all 4 sides. A 24" burl ball is minimum size to produce those blanks, and at 24" it can only provide 4 from the very center. Keep in mind the bark and sapwood must be removed. Considering a typical burl blank that size runs from $25 for BL maple -$150 for amboyna, if I offer $300 (what I typically pay for 24" burls) for the burl as a whole, it's a far cry from ripping anybody off. There's a chance the wood goes bad & I lose entirely, but most generally I get a 20%-30% yield. That's the facts of life for what I do. Sometimes I score, most times I do not. The important thing to me is that I get to utilize obscure, odd, before unseen woods from right here in America, rather than paying to support timber poaching overseas. I'd rather give you $300 for an American burl than the same $300 to a wood supplier that is far removed from the fellow who cut the tree & gets paid pennies. My $300 results in about the same amount of wood for me, except that I am pumping cash into our own economy while at the same time showcasing our own domestic exotics that people have never seen before. I sell my finish pool cue to guess who? The overseas market, mostly Asia, the region from which we most often import burls. Their money comes to the USA, stays in the USA, and they get to admire what we can produce here in the USA. So I am at a bit of disagreement over people getting "ripped off" or for it to be a bad thing selling a whole burl. I tend to think it's a pretty dang good deal for a landowner to cash in a lump on a tree for several hundred bucks or more without having to lift a finger.

Point being, a landowner has a 24" burl they are interested in selling. They can mill it, dry it, size it themselves, throwing away the inevitable extensive waste inherent with burl, and then attempt selling the solid pieces in hopes that they sized them for a market that will pay well. Or they can sell the entire whole burl, untouched, for $300 cash in pocket and save themselves the time & labor in processing & marketing the burl. If I buy said burl for $300 and get $400 worth of wood from it, then I have paid myself for the time & labor & cost, and I profit on the fact that I have a wood that nobody else in the world has seen or used in a pool cue. That's hardly ripping somebody off. Again, I disagree that there isn't a market for uncut burls. Contrarily, it's the only way I care to buy burl. I completely understand the risk of losing on it, but I never feel ripped off. It hurts like any business loss hurts, but the term "ripping off" lends itself to dishonesty. I can assure you dishonesty has never been a factor in my buying of wood. In fact, my m.o. is to offer enough cash that the seller finds it more appealing than doing the work themselves. That's business, nothing dishonest about it. If both parties are happy with the deal, then it's fair. If after the fact I have buyer's remorse because it doesn't look as good as I hoped, then how can I possibly feel the seller ripped me off? And if I am pleasantly surprised that the burl is better than I thought, how does that relate to ripping the seller off? It doesn't. There's nothing dishonest about any of it. The fear of dishonesty scares people into unjustified paranoia, which is why I believe open discussions like this would be a great reference for folks. They would get to see all sides of a discussion and could make a more informed decision. For what it's worth     
God bless our troops

5quarter

Qbuilder, You misunderstand me. or perhaps I explained things poorly. First, There should not be a market for uncut burl with regard to the seller trying get the maximum value for it. You can't sell something for a premium when you're not sure of it's quality. Likewise, No buyer will shell out big $$ for something that may or may not have any value. If the seller wants get the most from their burl, they need to open it up so, A) They can get a better idea of what they have and what to charge and, B) any potential buyers can assess the quality and decide how much it is worth to them.
   Second, if you buy an uncut burl and have even a rudimentary understanding of what you're buying, you cannot really be ripped off since you're buying on spec. nor can you rip off anyone else since even with your expertise, you can never be sure what it is you're buying. sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you get burned, as you implied. but a seller who sells you a burl for $50. then later learns that burls are highly prized may feel ripped off, without ever considering the other variables you mention. likewise, a buyer (not you) might pay big $$ for what turns out to be junk and feel ripped off, even though the seller cannot guarantee the quality unless he opens it up.
   I agree that its always going to be a win for a seller who's more interested in making a few$ for really doing nothing, There are exceptions, as I said.
   I think we are mostly on the same page, and I suspect that you are more than fair in all you're dealings. no foul intended.

Sawmill woman...if you feel that your burl is good quality, you can cut it and get the most for it as I mentioned. but if you cut it and it's no good then its not worth anything, so there is some risk in cutting it. If you can post a pic or 2, maybe qbuilder and others can give you some clues as to its quality.
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

pabst79

 I have never sold burls but have traded a couple for hand carved turkey calls made from said burl, I do believe that burls are coveted by call makers because of the exotic one off calls they can get. I have always wondered if some tree species are more likely than others to form burls? I see cherry and walnut burls most of the time. Would be great to see some pics of different burls slabs.   ??? ??? ??? ;D
Not sure which came first, but I have chickens and eggs.

SwampDonkey

Here's a yellow birch burl made into a coffee table I've been trying to sell. Mother bought it from a turner, but as you can see it has no figure, a little ingrown bark and some spalting. There hasn't been much interest online for it. It's really not all that interesting.

"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

fishfighter

So, what is the best way to mill one? I milled one yesterday into planks boards. Red Oak and was tough to cut. Have milled them 6/4.  I will be giving them to my SIL who is a very good carpenter.

I going to seal the end grains today. Told him to stack them up in his house attic.

Oh, it sure is a very nice grain running thru the boards that would make a nice table top.

drobertson

I was told by a turner to cut out burls, making at least 6" thick blanks,  as wide as possible,  the comment made was a raw burl has more waste in it than good as a general rule. So buying a raw blank is risky for the buyer.  On the other hand if its sawn out then a better inspection can be made as to what uses the stock would/could be used for.  I believe burls are clearly a niche market.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

justallan1

Welcome @Sawmill Woman
I started sawing burls less than a year ago and with some help from folks here and another site have learned bunches.
BEFORE you make a single cut into it have some Anchor Seal on hand. When you start sawing it up seal EVERY side with Anchor Seal as soon as you possibly can and seal it again in a day or so. Get some pics of all sides before you seal it and then store everything in a dark place.
The reasoning behind sealing all sides is that burls don't have vertical grain and will dry much faster in some spots than others and will crack all to heck on you. Think of a model of the human brain, that's what the grain in a lot of burls looks like.
I say this from experience. I posted some pics on here and was told to seal all sides. I didn't have sealer on hand and forgot about it for six months, BAD Allan! I turned a several thousand dollar log into a few hundred bucks worth of duck calls and pen blanks. Don't be an Allan!
If you can post some pics of your burl it would greatly help for us to give you pointers as to what to do with it.

Allan

pabst79

Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 21, 2015, 04:19:06 AM
Here's a yellow birch burl made into a coffee table I've been trying to sell. Mother bought it from a turner, but as you can see it has no figure, a little ingrown bark and some spalting. There hasn't been much interest online for it. It's really not all that interesting.









Much more interesting than your average coffee table though!  :) Never seen a birch burl that big before.
Not sure which came first, but I have chickens and eggs.

SwampDonkey

I've got a photo of one here way bigger than the table burl. It's huge.



;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

4x4American

So saw them 6" thick, and seal all sides...I assume sticker them?


Where can anchorseal be had?
Boy, back in my day..

Magicman

I just Googled "Anchorseal".  There are many sources.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: 4x4American on March 29, 2015, 08:43:49 AM
So saw them 6" thick, and seal all sides...I assume sticker them?


Where can anchorseal be had?
www.uccoatings.com  online store post paid from NY
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

justallan1

@4x4American If you are planning on selling them take a sharpie and write the size and date and then get some pics of them BEFORE you seal them. Use plenty of sealer and take a look at them in a few day or a week and seal them again if it even looks like there is any places not coated well. Sticker them and dry them as slow as possible.
I use Anchor Seal 2 and get it from UC Coatings. I think it goes for about $100 delivered for 5 gallons, but that beats the heck out of the $27 a quart it would cost anywhere that I am near.

Foxtrapper

So, assuming I know nothing about burls, which I don't, what are they really worth?  Which species would be worth messing with, and which wouldn't?  I usually cut them up for firewood..

SwampDonkey, how much is that burl worth?  I watched a show that featured some guys on the west coast who delt in burls, and they always mentioned weight as the key factor in value.  Like I said, have no idea about these, but would like to know more.. :P
2014 WoodMizer LT28

SwampDonkey

Foxtrapper, I haven't a clue on the value, but it was a local grown one on a big old yellow birch. It all depends really on the artist more than anything as far as I'm concerned. I've seen some burl bowls that looks half rotten with a lot of figure in it go for $3500. So who knows. An old guy I knew of used to make a lot of high end bowls, but he died a few years ago. I was only at his place once when he was building a new house along the Nashwaak river. A great spot for inspiration. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

4x4American

Thanks everyone.   Is anchorseal meant for boat anchors??
If so I'll just pick some up at the local Ford dealer when we pick our 550 up from getting warranty work
Boy, back in my day..

Magicman

You did not add a smiley to indicate it, but I am still assuming that you are joking.   ???
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

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