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Author Topic: grinding sequence thoughts  (Read 1877 times)

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Offline coastlogger

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grinding sequence thoughts
« on: January 25, 2015, 12:47:44 am »
Wonder if anyone has thoughts on this:
When I grind my bands (WM 1.25,10 degree double hards and Norwoods for a friend)using Dinasaw grinder, I almost always do a two pass technique; one pass lightly hitting face and back,then adjust ever so slightly and do a second pass lightly grinding the backs of teeth but just missing or perhaps grazing the tooth face.I read somewhere years ago,I think in some Norwood literature,that this was best,and I kind of got in the habit. Every once in awhile I just go around once and skip the second pass and they seem to cut OK.I dont seem to mill enough day in and day out to get a real good feel for which is better,wonder if anyone else has a comment on this?
I think the idea of the second pass on backs only was to eliminate burrs that stick up from tooth but burrs dont really stay around very long once blade is cutting so I wonder.
Thx
clgr
clgr

Online woodyone.john

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Re: grinding sequence thoughts
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2015, 02:55:30 am »
I just give a blade one light lick,so all surfaces are shinning.I usually pull the blade after 2 hours or if its starting to pull string out of the cut, unless may be if its close to smoko or knock of  or to finish the last board or 2 i'll hang in a bit.  If its damaged the a 2nd or 3rd go round as required.If to much damage [nails,metal, mill bits sometimes] the blade is tossed.I have only used 10* 1.5 doublehards.They cut soft and hard woods well for me and I dont have to prat around will angles etc each time.I generally run 20 blades at a time and follow them down till the black has gone or they dont last the 2 hours. frequently I will get 50% of them get better than 10 sharpenings.Pix of my sharpenig and setting kit in my gallery. Not right,just what works for me.
cheers john
Saw millers are just carpenters with bigger bits of wood

Offline slider

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Re: grinding sequence thoughts
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2015, 08:59:28 am »
I like to sweep the gullet to eliminate stress cracks.It takes more than one pass if you are doing light grinding.
al glenn

Offline Chuck White

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Re: grinding sequence thoughts
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2015, 07:39:58 pm »
Two light passes is a good idea, and provides a smoother grind and less chance of burning a tooth or two!
~Chuck~
Retired USAF (1989), Retired School Bus Driver (2012), and now a Mobile Sawyer
1995 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG2425 Kohler - Shingle & LapSider
Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener, 4-foot Logrite cant hook.
Basic mechanical skills are all that's required to maintain the Wood-Mizer.
I LOVE MY SAWMILL

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: grinding sequence thoughts
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2015, 07:29:04 am »
I seldom go around twice. A new band even with the correct cam usally won't clean up on the first pass. I don't worry about it second or third time it will reach all the gullet. Once the cam has shaped the gullet one light grind will sharpen unless you really run the band dull. Long band life comes from minimal metal removal to keep it sharp. I'am not completely sold on the theory that gullet grinding removes young cracks, it sounds good but may be old wives tale, my grinder is set up to do it so I do. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Offline coastlogger

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Re: grinding sequence thoughts
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2015, 10:27:53 pm »
I guess the difference Im talking about is by making the final pass on the back of the tooth only  it does(in theory at least) change the location of the burr,sort of like the sequence for grinding a knife   do we want a wire edge or a razor edge  (I think those are the terms)   By its nature,a drag sharpener profiling the whole tooth does the face of the tooth last and I guess would leave the burr standing up"proud" where if the second pass is done as I described,leaving the face alone, it will leave the burr overhanging the tooth face.Does it make a difference,cutting wise? That would be my question. 
clgr

Online woodyone.john

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Re: grinding sequence thoughts
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2015, 02:39:51 am »
When I take a band of the mill and look at the cutting edge,with the light behind me,I can see a gleem of light being the reflection of the dull edge.After grinding as I do ,then there is no reflection but a perceptible wire or bur can be seen.If I draw my finger or thump lightly towards me over the top of the tooth then it disappears.It disappears much more easily than trying to rub the burr from the inside of the blade.What say others
cheers john   
Saw millers are just carpenters with bigger bits of wood

Offline ladylake

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Re: grinding sequence thoughts
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2015, 04:49:08 am »
I seldom go around twice. A new band even with the correct cam usally won't clean up on the first pass. I don't worry about it second or third time it will reach all the gullet. Once the cam has shaped the gullet one light grind will sharpen unless you really run the band dull. Long band life comes from minimal metal removal to keep it sharp. I'am not completely sold on the theory that gullet grinding removes young cracks, it sounds good but may be old wives tale, my grinder is set up to do it so I do. Frank C.

 I couldn't have said it better.   Steve
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Offline 4x4American

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Re: grinding sequence thoughts
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2015, 09:00:21 am »
I will look at the band and determine when it's sharp.  If it needs to go around 3-4 times then it does.  I always try to give it the lightest grind possible.  When I'm setting I'll go around 2-3 times also to make sure that they're all uniform.  Plus I can set a band real fast with the dual tooth from Cook's.


I have a question now.  First, I have a Cat's Claw Sharpner and I start my grinding from the weld joint.

So my first sharpening of Cook's duratooth SS bands I have noticed time and time again that when I get close to the weld joint, I will have to make the finger push the band farther, or else it will burn teeth.  It will all of a sudden start taking way more off.  And that will throw me off.  Anyone else had that?
Boy, back in my day..

Offline Chuck White

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Re: grinding sequence thoughts
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2015, 01:36:42 pm »
I will look at the band and determine when it's sharp.  If it needs to go around 3-4 times then it does.  I always try to give it the lightest grind possible.  When I'm setting I'll go around 2-3 times also to make sure that they're all uniform.  Plus I can set a band real fast with the dual tooth from Cook's.


I have a question now.  First, I have a Cat's Claw Sharpner and I start my grinding from the weld joint.

So my first sharpening of Cook's duratooth SS bands I have noticed time and time again that when I get close to the weld joint, I will have to make the finger push the band farther, or else it will burn teeth.  It will all of a sudden start taking way more off.  And that will throw me off.  Anyone else had that?


I have, and I think it's due to the band being stretched however slightly.
I don't remember what company I got the band from, a free one to try, so it was good, just didn't last as long as the Wood-Mizer "Double-Hard" bands.

I've also had bands that the teeth weren't in multiples of 3, that is "left-right-raker", etc. and when I'd get to the end while setting, I had to be on my toes.  Never ordered any more of those!

Then I had some that had a point that stuck up at the weld, so I had to watch for that because the sharpeners push-rod would catch on it, and that wasn't good.

So, you can find all kinds of things that are different with different companies bands.
~Chuck~
Retired USAF (1989), Retired School Bus Driver (2012), and now a Mobile Sawyer
1995 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG2425 Kohler - Shingle & LapSider
Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener, 4-foot Logrite cant hook.
Basic mechanical skills are all that's required to maintain the Wood-Mizer.
I LOVE MY SAWMILL

Offline 4x4American

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Re: grinding sequence thoughts
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2015, 05:41:01 pm »
chuck-  yes i've had that sequence problem before.  that is why i always start setting from the weld joint.  i have had the nipple in the gullet too.  i have not had a problem with it and the pushfinger.  like i said i start at the weld joint, and the grinder will take that nub out first pass.  i like to watch the grinder as it goes around so that if anything starts gettin funky, i can react fast. if i have to step away i keep listenin intently to it.  i will sometimes set when its grinding and i keep an ear on it.  but with this last set of cooks bands that must be stretched i have been watching carefully.   i often will dress the wheel lightly as it goes around if i hear it starting to sound different.  anyways.  i have a lot to learn.
Boy, back in my day..

Offline hamish

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Re: grinding sequence thoughts
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2015, 10:54:57 pm »
There is a huge difference in the types of sharpeners being used in this discussion.  Profile vs full profile is a huge difference.  There is no comparison in the operating or technique.  A Dinasaw or Grindlux can never be looked at the same way as a full profile grinder.
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Offline 4x4American

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Re: grinding sequence thoughts
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2015, 11:25:01 pm »
mine is a sweep grinder and it grinds the full profile of the tooth so i would figure that its a full profile.  im not familiar with any of the other bandsaw grinders besides my cat claw and ive watched a wright in operation.
Boy, back in my day..

Online uler3161

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Re: grinding sequence thoughts
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2015, 12:07:07 am »
mine is a sweep grinder and it grinds the full profile of the tooth so i would figure that its a full profile.  im not familiar with any of the other bandsaw grinders besides my cat claw and ive watched a wright in operation.

I think what hamish is referring to is a stone that matches the entire tooth profile (like a WM CBN). We have a Dinasaw and similar to your grinder, it does grind the full profile. Then there's a third kind like the old WM grinders that just do the face of the tooth. We used one of those for years and years.

I wish the Dinasaw was a little better made, but it is an amazing machine if you are patient enough to figure out how to run it. You can do pretty much any profile without having to buy a cam (it's infinitely adjustable within it's limits). Someone mentioned earlier about new blades not quite cleaning up on the first grind. Not a problem on a Dinasaw. Now if I could just find decent priced grinding stones with the oddball arbor size it uses.
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Dan

Offline coastlogger

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Re: grinding sequence thoughts
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2015, 01:36:50 am »
Uler I found some really good grinding wheels in B.C.The used Dinasaw grinder I bought had a stone on it that lasted and lasted. "Apache Abrasives"   in fact its still lasting. I did a bit of research(theres a post on it) and finally found the guy who had inherited the supply of these custom wheels. He has I think a hundred or so. I bought 10 for $100 which at the rate Im going will way outlast me. I have his invoice filed right where I put it. If you want Ill send the address(soon as I find it)These wheels seem to outlast Dino wheels by a factor of maybe a hundred,and do a great job. No idea what theyre made of.
clgr
clgr

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: grinding sequence thoughts
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2015, 07:33:12 am »
Many times bushings can be used to reduce the hole size in a grinding wheel if it otherwise will fit, provided its rated for the RPM's of your machine. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Offline 4x4American

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Re: grinding sequence thoughts
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2015, 10:33:26 am »
i will  have to do more research on the topic.  i saw a display at the forestry expo in essex junction vt for a wm grinder but i cant recall if it was the cbn or not.  from what i can remember it was a plunge grinder
Boy, back in my day..

Online uler3161

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Re: grinding sequence thoughts
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2015, 11:21:57 am »
Uler I found some really good grinding wheels in B.C.The used Dinasaw grinder I bought had a stone on it that lasted and lasted. "Apache Abrasives"   in fact its still lasting. I did a bit of research(theres a post on it) and finally found the guy who had inherited the supply of these custom wheels. He has I think a hundred or so. I bought 10 for $100 which at the rate Im going will way outlast me. I have his invoice filed right where I put it. If you want Ill send the address(soon as I find it)These wheels seem to outlast Dino wheels by a factor of maybe a hundred,and do a great job. No idea what theyre made of.
clgr

That is quite a savings. I remember when we first got the grinder they were around $15. Now they are up to $30. We also had one or two of their cyclone wheels. Those lasted longer, but we didn't feel they lasted long enough for the price difference. No rush, but if you do happen to find the address please let me know.
1989 LT40HD, 12ft extension, WoodMaster 718, Fordson Major Diesel, Champ CB40 Forklift

Dan

Online uler3161

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Re: grinding sequence thoughts
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2015, 11:24:02 am »
Many times bushings can be used to reduce the hole size in a grinding wheel if it otherwise will fit, provided its rated for the RPM's of your machine. Frank C.

I thought about heading down this route and maybe I will next time I order wheels. I think I still have 2 or 3 of the Dinasaw wheels. When I run out of those I may try a bushing.
1989 LT40HD, 12ft extension, WoodMaster 718, Fordson Major Diesel, Champ CB40 Forklift

Dan