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How much does a C5D grapple skidder weigh?

Started by RunningRoot, January 21, 2015, 10:12:00 PM

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RunningRoot

Found a nice solid/tight C5D grapple skidder that i believe I've got a deal worked out on..
It's a dry machine with lower hours..
It's got a duetz 5 cylinder engine
Good 18.4-26 tires
Escro grapple
#19 winch
From what I'm told it's a reliable machine, something I'm not used to with a skidder, tired of working on the C4D everyday...

So my question is... what's it weigh ?
How much bigger is it than my c4D ?
And can I go get it with my 1 ton and 24k gooseneck  and make it through scales if I have to along the way ?
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

Southside

Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

RunningRoot

Not sure to be honest, whatever the trucks GVW is I'd say, here in ohio I believe they just go off what's on the title.. my truck doesn't list a GCVWR, just a GVWR and GAWR
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

HiTech

I would guess around 8 ton. I have heard so many weights over the years I can't be sure. It would be bigger than a C4. It would be better with 18.4  x 34's. That 5 cylinder Deutz should put out 97hp or so. They are a pulling machine.

Southside

Then I am presuming it is at most 26,000 lbs, assuming the truck and trailer weigh 16,000 to 17,000 empty you have 9,000 to 10,000 to play with. I doubt you would want to cross a scale with that skidder on there.

Depending on where you have to go to get it either hiring a tag or lowboy is probably your best bet.  Of course there is always the scenic drive route... 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

mad murdock

I doubt if you would be legal hauling a C5 behind a pickup. That is a pretty good sized machine, compares to the C4. Probably is somewhere north of 22,000 lbs. the deutz is a rock solid engine and easy on fuel. Sounds like a sweet machine.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

ga jones

What did u end up doing about the ring and pinion on the model 9
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

RunningRoot

Trying to find a parts winch for it... I can get a whole #9winch for what they wanted for just the R&P.. so i figured I'd be better off with a parts winch that way I've got one sitting in the shop to rob parts off of if need be..
If I get this c5d I'll just replace the r&p, fix a few other things and list the c4d for sale....

I'm really hoping to get this C5D, I'm under The impression that it's a reliable machine , something I can turn the key every morning and go to work . And with all the flat ground I've been on lately it would be nice to have that grapple when it can be used.
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

RunningRoot

Stopped at the state highway patrol office this afternoon and asked some questions..

Smokey the bear told me this,
My GCVWR is my trucks GVW + trailer GVW

So that gives me a GCVWR  of  32,950lbs.
For my truck and trailer...

The truck weighs 7,300lbs.
Trailer weighs  6,100lbs
For a total of 13,400lbs. Truck,trailer,passengers, fuel and all gear included..

32,950 GCVWR - 13,400 total existing weight leaves..
19,550lbs. Payload capability...

Owner told me the C5D weighs 17,500lbs.
If this is true it would give me 2,050lbs. To spare...
Guess i need to confirm the skidder "true" weight...
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

ga jones

That sounds like a close weight. My 380c is 22,500.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

xalexjx

my c5d cable skidder with chains on all 4 is right around 18k.
Logging and Processed Firewood

RunningRoot

Have you guys ever seen a TJ 225A for sale anywhere . I love the looks of them and they look as though they're fairly stable as well.. this would be a realistic perfect machine for me ...

I just caught myself and realized I was doing what I said I wasn't going to do , and that was rush out and buy the first skidder I thought was a decent buy/machine...

I'm going to leave the C-5D  on the table but I'm gonna keep looking around, it can't be the only good deal out there on a nice skidder . It looks as though it's a good machine and it would be a huge upgrade for me but it's not my dream machine .

If I'm going to invest a huge chunk of my savings and buy another skidder, I want it to be exactly what I want but my problem is I'm inpatient  at the same time LOL

I need you guys to be my support group on this, and keep me from becoming buy happy haha.... Seriously though, at 225A or 230A is what I've always wanted from day one . For once I'm going to try and hold out for as long as I can and pursue what I really want and not settle .... for now anyways....
I'll go to Canada after a good 225A or 230A at the right price...
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

Maine logger88

My neibour had a sweet 225A that he sold awhile back it was a nice machine for sure! If you could find a 230A with a cummins that would be a nice machine too!
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

Corley5

Timberjacks are a lot easier to get on and off of than Tree Farmers  ;) ;D
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

North River Energy

Check CL Maine. 
Recent ad for 77 230d for 12.5.

RunningRoot

Cory5, that's one MAJOR reason I want a TJ.. my C4D will wear you out just getting on and off it all day lol

And my father could run it for me a couple days a week if I had a TJ,  he's never ran my C4D because he knows he would struggle to get on and off it all day..
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

Ed_K

Sawlog Bulletin Loggers buying guide is coming out soon, they usually have a number of TJs for sale.
Ed K

Southside

Quote from: RunningRoot on January 22, 2015, 02:24:21 PM
Stopped at the state highway patrol office this afternoon and asked some questions..

Smokey the bear told me this,
My GCVWR is my trucks GVW + trailer GVW

So that gives me a GCVWR  of  32,950lbs.
For my truck and trailer...

The truck weighs 7,300lbs.
Trailer weighs  6,100lbs
For a total of 13,400lbs. Truck,trailer,passengers, fuel and all gear included..

32,950 GCVWR - 13,400 total existing weight leaves..
19,550lbs. Payload capability...

Owner told me the C5D weighs 17,500lbs.
If this is true it would give me 2,050lbs. To spare...
Guess i need to confirm the skidder "true" weight...

Running Root - not trying to be a downer here or question what you are being told but just want to verify so you don't get into a massive heap of trouble.  Is your truck licensed for that weight?  That may be the GCWR, but if the tags on your truck are only good for 15,000 lbs or even 26,000 lbs you would be in a big ole pile if you crossed the scales at 32K.  The other question is do you have a CDL-A license?  Any combination vehicle 26,001 lbs and more towing a trailer 10,000 lbs or more requires a CDL-A.  The other things that come to mind are over 26,001 lbs you have to pay the Heavy Vehicle Use Tax to the IRS and may need a state fuel use decal as well, not sure about Ohio.

If you pulled into a scale with a big skidder on there and a bunch of semis behind you on a busy day they may see you as a good 'ol boy and give you the "carry on my wayward son" speech, assuming you have nice DOT cops (excuse me from the fit of laughing I just went through after saying that), or they may decide that you are a great candidate for a Level 1 inspection. 

Like I said not trying to tell you your business but you asked if your truck would be legal and I hate to see this opportunity turn into a pit.
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

mad murdock

To be on the up and up, you can always go to a fully staffed scale house or DMV and ask about a trip permit. That way you are legal.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

RunningRoot

Ok, So I think I've decided to keep the C4D but if I do I want to fix it up exactly how I want . I figured I could put a third of the money that I was gonna spend on another skidder into the C4D and have it pretty nice .It's gonna be a lot of work but I think it will be worth it in the end. I've got a good John Deere 239T engine to put in it , I'm in the process of rebuilding it now just waiting for the machine shop to do the head and I can start reassembling everything. I'm in the process of fixing the winch now as well, everything else in the winch is in great shape including all clutch and break bands, bearings and seals..
The only other thing the skidder would actually "need" that I know of is the center pins..

Axles and planetarys are all dry,
Transmission is dry and tight, and
The transfer case is dry and tight.
It's actually a pretty nice little skidder, not beat up at all, very straight,  the previous owner just let some things go and never fixed them and I just haven't had time to do it all yet myself.

I would love to have 23.1-26 rubber on it as well as it would give me a lot better hillside stability and better flotation in the flat Wetground, but the cost of converting to 23.1 x 26 tires is scary as I would have to have the rims as well.

I was told the only difference between a C4D and C5D is the axles, winch and engine... can anyone confirm this for me ?
So I think my game plan is to find a C5D parts machine with decent 23.1-26 rubber and Grapple...

Install the JD 239T engine,finish winch,  change center pins, upgrade the rubber to 23.1-26's and install Grapple from C-5D parts machine, install plexiglass wind protection and paint the whole unit...
This is my plan...

Finding a C5D parts machine may be a task I fear...
Gonna try and do engine and pins be for I start my big tract..

Sorry for the long post It's been a long day in the woods with all the rain....
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

teakwood

double DanG! thats quiet a project you have planed there.  I guess 1 month of labor time??
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

so il logger

Sounds like a good plan to me ;) I had a 89 c4d with a f4l deutz and 18.4 rubber. It was a extremely low hour machine. Tough little tractor that got around good. Only thing i didn't like was how unstable it was on hill sides. Seemed real nose heavy other than that i had no complaint. And by adding a grapple and 23.1 you should be righting that problem.

lopet

Quote from: RunningRoot on January 25, 2015, 07:04:44 PM

Install the JD 239T engine,finish winch,  change center pins, upgrade the rubber to 23.1-26's and install Grapple from C-5D parts machine, install plexiglass wind protection and paint the whole unit...
This is my plan...

Finding a C5D parts machine may be a task I fear...
Gonna try and do engine and pins be for I start my big tract..



Unless i have missed something, I always had the impression you worried about your C4 not being able to handle those big logs you're planning on cutting.  Now you're sounding like your skidder is not " in shape " to do that job.
It's been mentioned before, but why not rent a grapple skidder for a month or two and then you know what kinda money you have to play with.  By running a grapple you also get to find out what it can do and what not.
You may start liking it and still want to upgrade and you could only put as much money in your C4 to have a decent backup machine.
Not saying your plan is wrong but you're talking about some serious shop time. :o 
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

RunningRoot

I Have bounced back-and-forth about what I want to do, purchase a new skidder ?or fix Mine up as I want it ? do I need a bigger skidder? or can I make this size machine I have work? I "think" I've decided to keep the c4d and Build it exactly how I want with my main motivation being that I have it paid for as it was bought in cash . I can put 7 to 8 grand in my c4D and have the exact machine I want, or spend 20k-25k on a new skidder and still not know exactly what I'm getting and end up having to put money into it.

Yes my c4d has some things that need addressed and when I got the bigger tract it was pretty much the final push I needed to look for a different machine, or excuse shall I say, but now I've changed my mind once again I believe.

The shop time doesn't bother me, it's all not as many hours as you would think .. Reassembling the engine is nothing but a weekend night as long as all machine work is done ahead of time and I have everything on hand. Yes, installing it is a good three-day weekend project . Fixing the Winch is nothing but 2 to 3 hours once I get the ring and pinion and center pins is nothing but a Friday night itself . Sourcing the parts and parts machine would be the most time consuming...

If I can find the C-5 parts machine I would just take a good 10 days off and live in the shop 8 hours a day for 10 days and knock "most of it" out...

It's obvious to me and all of you I still got a lot of thinking to do...

A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

so il logger

Bigger skidder is also a bigger fuel bill. Are you logging for a living? Would a bigger tractor equal out the cost versus production? For me a bigger machine was the next step in my life to get more production. I got a used one and have worked on the thing since. Sure it's getting closer to where I want it, but the down time is eating at savings.

lopet

Quote from: RunningRoot on January 25, 2015, 10:38:17 PM
I can put 7 to 8 grand in my c4D and have the exact machine I want

I assume that does not include the 23.1-26 rubbers and rims.
Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to talk you out of it. I mean it sounds like a good plan for getting a machine the way you want it.  It just sounds like a lot of work to me and I don't know in what kinda time frame you like to have it all done.
Do you need to have a adapter plate made to make that 239T fit ?

Just remember, it always costs more than you think and it always takes longer than you think. And this is a old guy telling you and he should know by now  ;D 
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

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