Need some expertise from some experienced guys with 100cc saws

[cbla]

Nice Pics!

[bornwithnoname]

I'm definitely going to break her in easy as i can. right now i have VP ethanol free fuel in it 50:1 ratio do you guys think i should put a little more oil in it? My dealer really recommended it and threw in 5 gallons of it and some winter bar oil for free which was awesome.  I still need to decide on what chain to run on it i have the 41in rollomatic stihl bar with .404 .063 gauge what ripping chain is the best the granberg, oregon, or woodland pro? Its not 40 below here luckily! I do plan on milling but Im waiting on a new carb float for our snow blower we have a small jd tractor but that's broke too and Im sick of shoveling and I dont have the 48in csm yet i could put it on our 36 though. The saw is a beast though it cut through the over 3ft honey locus no problem I decided to take a couple cookies of the but because it has such a flare.

[bornwithnoname]

 

[bornwithnoname]

 

[cbla]

that Honey Locus will make some nice boards. enjoy the new saw

[HolmenTree]

Very nice MS880 unit you have there b.w.n.n. Maintain it well and it may last you into middle age ;)

I have a few recommendations on ripping chain. I use full skip .404 chisel chain and it works very well for me in spruce which is a softwood. I round file and square file them and find the square filed [chisel bit ] holds the best edge and cuts faster....but takes alot longer for me to file free hand over the round file method. I don't recommend you to square file if you have no experience with it.

I've talked to chainsaw millers in Australia who cut some of the toughest hardwoods on earth, and they say the chisel bit square filed ripping chain holds an edge very well in their hardwood.

All the ripping chain sold by Oregon , Stihl and Granberg[Carlton chain] is semi chisel and round filed. So if your cutting alot of dirty barked logs or are urban trees with a good chance of having metal in them, then the semi chisel chain may be your best bet.
Forget about the Granberg scoring cutter design chain....way too much difficult maintenence with all the different settings and hit a nail and it doesn't hold up well. Plus the  scoring cutters are too hard to file and only a 12Volt hand grinder in the field can be used.

The nice thing about the .404 square ground chisel bit chains is they are factory ground at 15° top plate angle and are close enough to the 10° spec of ripping chain. Which you then can easily file to 10° with the 7/32" round file.
But try milling first with the factory square grind and be surprised how long it stays sharp and how fast it cuts. When it finally gets dull put the 7/32" file to it and you will still have a very good milling chain. 
Try a loop of Stihl 46RSLF or Oregon 68CJ. Both are square ground chisel bit full skip chain, in .063- .404

Here's my milling chains : Stihl .404 full skip round filed chisel and some Oregon .404 square filed full comp chisel bit.



  

    

[JohnG28]

Not to critique you in any way, but just remember to be careful young lad!  ;) I remember 19 all too well, and big toys tend to get you in more trouble when your younger sometimes. Hope not to come off as insulting your competence, just a reminder. A small saw can bite bad, so one that size really can even more and even faster. Hell, I can't say I've even run a saw size.   :D As for the oil, if the dealer gave you a bunch of canned premix then use that up first. When that is gone then look for ethanol free gas and mix to your liking,  32:1 would be better for milling. More than likely you can open up the H side of the carb to its stop and you won't be too rich, possibly even to lean, especially for milling. And there's a catch 22 in there as well, if you defeat the limit caps then you just voided the warranty on an expensive tool. However, if I recall correctly a guy here burned up a new 660 a year or two back milling and it was not covered by warrant due to milling not being the intended use for the saw, or something to that effect. So, watch to do? That I will let you decide. But for what you're going to do, might be best to get it dialed in for each application. I.E., pull the caps so you can adjust for more fuel when ripping. Or don't,  but if you burn it up or have a crank failure,  you WERE NOT using it for anything other than felling and bucking!  :D :D  Good luck and enjoy your new toy....or saw!  8)

[HolmenTree]

Good advice John. I strongly believe with the H speed turned out max in richness to the limiter is safe enough for milling. Don't forget there's a limiter on the ignition module too.

I advise b.w.n.n. to use up the canned fuel even if it's 50:1.
40:1 would be safer but I have no idea what oil is in the fuel or if it can be bought readily enough.

Main thing is keep the chain sharp with periodic touch ups  before it does get dull. Never push a dull chain .
When it slows down touch it up.

[HolmenTree]

 

  

  

 

On the subject of stay sharp capabilities of the .404 chisel bit square ground chain I talked about earlier.

In these photos of all the milling I did on this cold day.......my Husqvarna 395XP-36" with the Oregon square ground chisel chain did all of this milling without a touch up with the file.
Right off the roll and milled these frozen timbers with a bunch of wide  planks thrown in for extra measure. Amazing how long that chain stayed sharp. Of course it could've been sharper with a little work, but it did just fine with it's superior cutter design.
I was only able to cut about 6 feet with the Stihl 090AV because I couldn't get it to run right in the -40 below windchill temps. It had the 36" Stihl full skip round filed chisel .404 [46RSF]

There's a square filing jig on the market called a Atop, expensive at over $200 but does a great job I heard. Only trouble is it only sharpens 3/8" full comp chisel bit chain.

Here's my Oregon .404 square ground chain.



  

 

[bornwithnoname]

that Honey Locus will make some nice boards. enjoy the new saw

Thanks I will and still need to decide how many slabs vs dimensional lumber to mill out of it.

Not to critique you in any way, but just remember to be careful young lad!  ;) I remember 19 all too well, and big toys tend to get you in more trouble when your younger sometimes. Hope not to come off as insulting your competence, just a reminder. A small saw can bite bad, so one that size really can even more and even faster. Hell, I can't say I've even run a saw size.   :D As for the oil, if the dealer gave you a bunch of canned premix then use that up first. When that is gone then look for ethanol free gas and mix to your liking,  32:1 would be better for milling. More than likely you can open up the H side of the carb to its stop and you won't be too rich, possibly even to lean, especially for milling. And there's a catch 22 in there as well, if you defeat the limit caps then you just voided the warranty on an expensive tool. However, if I recall correctly a guy here burned up a new 660 a year or two back milling and it was not covered by warrant due to milling not being the intended use for the saw, or something to that effect. So, watch to do? That I will let you decide. But for what you're going to do, might be best to get it dialed in for each application. I.E., pull the caps so you can adjust for more fuel when ripping. Or don't,  but if you burn it up or have a crank failure,  you WERE NOT using it for anything other than felling and bucking!  :D :D  Good luck and enjoy your new toy....or saw!  8)

I take no offence and  I certainly respect the saw and will try to be a safe as possible I have chaps and am looking at getting a jacket with Kevlar in it my mom was verrrry concerned when she saw the saw. As for the ethanol free gas my dad said i should go the the airport and get some 100 low lead aviation fuel does anyone have experience running that in their saw and is it worth it? In the near future I plan on getting a high flow air filter called max flow and i want to mount a tachometer on the mill so i can know what speed she is running while milling. the other thing i have seen is some one fabricated an exhaust pipe that directs the flow away from the operator... I plan on running 2 tanks through it using the saw lightly before i do any adjustments.

[bornwithnoname]

Very nice MS880 unit you have there b.w.n.n. Maintain it well and it may last you into middle age ;)

I have a few recommendations on ripping chain. I use full skip .404 chisel chain and it works very well for me in spruce which is a softwood. I round file and square file them and find the square filed [chisel bit ] holds the best edge and cuts faster....but takes alot longer for me to file free hand over the round file method. I don't recommend you to square file if you have no experience with it.

I've talked to chainsaw millers in Australia who cut some of the toughest hardwoods on earth, and they say the chisel bit square filed ripping chain holds an edge very well in their hardwood.

All the ripping chain sold by Oregon , Stihl and Granberg[Carlton chain] is semi chisel and round filed. So if your cutting alot of dirty barked logs or are urban trees with a good chance of having metal in them, then the semi chisel chain may be your best bet.
Forget about the Granberg scoring cutter design chain....way too much difficult maintenence with all the different settings and hit a nail and it doesn't hold up well. Plus the  scoring cutters are too hard to file and only a 12Volt hand grinder in the field can be used.

The nice thing about the .404 square ground chisel bit chains is they are factory ground at 15° top plate angle and are close enough to the 10° spec of ripping chain. Which you then can easily file to 10° with the 7/32" round file.
But try milling first with the factory square grind and be surprised how long it stays sharp and how fast it cuts. When it finally gets dull put the 7/32" file to it and you will still have a very good milling chain. 
Try a loop of Stihl 46RSLF or Oregon 68CJ. Both are square ground chisel bit full skip chain, in .063- .404

Here's my milling chains : Stihl .404 full skip round filed chisel and some Oregon .404 square filed full comp chisel bit.



  

 

I have no experience with square ground chain but my grandpa does he use to use it when he logged up in Maine he also said it cuts way faster but is harder to sharpen so maybe i will ask him if he could show me how to sharpen with it. I read a web page where someone used a triangle file in there granberg sharpening jig that the slightly modified i do have one. Like you said i will be almost only doing urban trees until some day i can afford a small wood lot. So i think i will end up getting the full skip semi chisel and i could use a grinder to sharpen it witch i plan on getting some day im thinking about getting a bench one sine 90% of my milling will either be done in my yard or my grandpas yard because i get most of my trees dropped off.

I think i could just add some oil to the 5 gallons to bring it up to 40:1 i would have to add 10:1 for 5 gallons right?

Everyone thanks for the continued advice and support, and Holementree thanks for all the advice and pictures seeing others work inspires me to do more!

[ohiowoodchuck]

Higher octane fuel is not going to hurt anything. I just run 93 in mine, I get mine where each grade has a different hose. I threw in my stihl mix and a additive from Briggs and Stratton.

[avery]

I worked on chainsaws in a shop for several years. In my experience I found Stihl to be a well built machine. Stihl has my vote.

[JohnG28]

I wouldn't bother to add oil to your premix, it will be good to use as it is. I don't think you will have any problems. I'd stay away from leaded fuel. The exhaust will contain lead and be dangerous. Puregas.org you can find stations with ethanol free gas near you.

[Andyshine77]

I recommend a fuel mixture of 32:1 in every saw, especially in milling applications. 32:1 is 4oz of oil per one gallon of fuel. 100 low lead will work fine, but I don't care to breathe in lead exhaust myself.     

[beenthere]

Gee.. the first 30 years of my life we burned nothing but leaded fuel. Now of a sudden it is dangerous?
Why are we not dead?
I even chewed on lead paint as a kid. Maybe there is an explanation that I don't want to know. 

And in the science lab, we played with mercury. Rolled dimes in it to make them real shiny. Dropped it on the floor and it scattered in many rolling droplets. Took awhile to gather them back up and into the mercury bottle to put back on the shelf.

[Andyshine77]

Gee.. the first 30 years of my life we burned nothing but leaded fuel. Now of a sudden it is dangerous?
Why are we not dead?
I even chewed on lead paint as a kid. Maybe there is an explanation that I don't want to know. 

And in the science lab, we played with mercury. Rolled dimes in it to make them real shiny. Dropped it on the floor and it scattered in many rolling droplets. Took awhile to gather them back up and into the mercury bottle to put back on the shelf.

Ingesting Mercury or lead is the problem, handling in or being around it every now and then likely wont have any effect. Take into consideration Tomas Midgley, JR, the man who invented leaded fuel, was poisoned buy his own invention, which lead to his death at the age of 55.

[Ianab]

Large scale mercury poisoning.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamata_disease

Metallic mercury isn't actually too dangerous. It's vapour or organic mercury compounds in food that will get ya, usually as a long term accumulation.

Lead is almost as bad. Again it's not lumps of lead that are the danger, so you can handle fishing sinkers and bullets without dying. But ingesting it as dust, in food, or as an exhaust gas is certainly bad. 

Now years ago this wasn't understood, and people DID get sick from it.

[bornwithnoname]

 Everyone dies some day but you guys convinced me on no leaded Fuel I try not to do things that cut time off if i can help it  :

Large scale mercury poisoning.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamata_disease

Metallic mercury isn't actually too dangerous. It's vapour or organic mercury compounds in food that will get ya, usually as a long term accumulation.

Lead is almost as bad. Again it's not lumps of lead that are the danger, so you can handle fishing sinkers and bullets without dying. But ingesting it as dust, in food, or as an exhaust gas is certainly bad. 

Now years ago this wasn't understood, and people DID get sick from it.

Gee.. the first 30 years of my life we burned nothing but leaded fuel. Now of a sudden it is dangerous?
Why are we not dead?
I even chewed on lead paint as a kid. Maybe there is an explanation that I don't want to know. 

And in the science lab, we played with mercury. Rolled dimes in it to make them real shiny. Dropped it on the floor and it scattered in many rolling droplets. Took awhile to gather them back up and into the mercury bottle to put back on the shelf.

Ingesting Mercury or lead is the problem, handling in or being around it every now and then likely wont have any effect. Take into consideration Tomas Midgley, JR, the man who invented leaded fuel, was poisoned buy his own invention, which lead to his death at the age of 55.

I wouldn't bother to add oil to your premix, it will be good to use as it is. I don't think you will have any problems. I'd stay away from leaded fuel. The exhaust will contain lead and be dangerous. Puregas.org you can find stations with ethanol free gas near you.

[bornwithnoname]

Gee.. the first 30 years of my life we burned nothing but leaded fuel. Now of a sudden it is dangerous?
Why are we not dead?
I even chewed on lead paint as a kid. Maybe there is an explanation that I don't want to know. 

And in the science lab, we played with mercury. Rolled dimes in it to make them real shiny. Dropped it on the floor and it scattered in many rolling droplets. Took awhile to gather them back up and into the mercury bottle to put back on the shelf.

been there sounds like something my dad or grandpa would say but there seems to be alot of people against the leaded fuel i have 5 gallons of the vp stuff it cost like $70 (i got it free thou) which i think is pretty darn high $14 a gallon  smiley_confused especially with the gas prices now so low i will have to really be thinking about what to get for fuel when i run out. The saw is pretty expensive and I am a believer of buying top quality because it pays of in the long run. From what i understand ethanol is bad but what is really  bad is leaving it in engines for a long time right? i have heard good testimony's of additives being added to lessen the affect but if everyone is thinking i should spend the extra bucks on the fuel i will take the advice from the experienced. My grandpas saw he uses is 20 something years old and he uses it frequently and he doesn't run any special fuel in it... I don't know what do you guys think?

[mad murdock]

bwnn-I would either use non-ethanol premium, and if that were not available where I was, I would then use 100LL aviation gasoline.  the 100LL would be my preference over 10% ethanol regular gas mix that you get at most pumps nowadays.  the 100LL can have a tendency to lead foul plugs, so during heavy use, I would make a habit of removing the spark plug and cleaning it out with a pick at least once a week. 100LL is shelf stable for a long time, that is the good thing about it, as well as it has less of a tendency to attract water, over "mogas" (auto fuel).

[HolmenTree]

Along with good premium gas don't forget a good mix. I run Stihl Ultra full synthetic at 40:1 [small bottle in photo].
Or the old reliable Premium[big bottle] I've used in my older saws like my 066 that's 23 years old and still has never had its cylinder removed.

Lower photo: I've used this Husqvarna fuel works great in the saws or blower I don't use much that sit .
95 octane and has a 2 year shelf life after opening.


  

 

[HolmenTree]

Here's the 92 octane Stihl Moto Mix I have . Mixed with full synthetic Stihl Ultra at 50:1. I add a little extra from the small bottle to make it 40:1
Sure wouldn't be cheap milling lumber in a MS880 . But good fuel to leave in saw if left to sit for a while, shelf life good for 2 years after opening.
I run it in my 395XP, 338XPT and leaf blower that I don't run all that often. Never have to throw out stale gas.



 

[bornwithnoname]

bwnn-I would either use non-ethanol premium, and if that were not available where I was, I would then use 100LL aviation gasoline.  the 100LL would be my preference over 10% ethanol regular gas mix that you get at most pumps nowadays.  the 100LL can have a tendency to lead foul plugs, so during heavy use, I would make a habit of removing the spark plug and cleaning it out with a pick at least once a week. 100LL is shelf stable for a long time, that is the good thing about it, as well as it has less of a tendency to attract water, over "mogas" (auto fuel).

I cant get any ethanol free gas from a pump only the prepackaged stuff witch is expensive and some people are concerned with the lead gas fumes so i think either i will wear my 3m respirator witch i sometimes wear because some woods slightly irritate me...  I do also want to mod the exhaust to point it away from me I am fairly good at brazing because i built a lugged steel bike frame. i could also increase the exhaust diameter a little from stock does anyone have any thoughts on porting the 880? specifically so the exhaust doesn't flow towards the wood and back to my face or would it be better to rig a remote throttle and a winch?

Along with good premium gas don't forget a good mix. I run Stihl Ultra full synthetic at 40:1 [small bottle in photo].
Or the old reliable Premium[big bottle] I've used in my older saws like my 066 that's 23 years old and still has never had its cylinder removed.

Lower photo: I've used this Husqvarna fuel works great in the saws or blower I don't use much that sit .
95 octane and has a 2 year shelf life after opening.


  

 

I have had lots of recommendations  to increase the mix in the fuel to a higher ratio like 32:1 or  40:1 and i will do that. the 880 is going to eat through the 5 gallons of fuel fairly quick (about 14 tanks) it all depends on how much wood I can mill per tank I will see the 880 has a 44oz fuel capacity i have 5 gallons of premix ($70) witch is 640oz so the cost per ounce of fuel is about 11c so each tank is about if i did my math right $4.84 witch isn't bad i guess if i look at it that way. I will see how many average bf i get per tank and then i can better evaluate if the expensive fuel is worth it... its starting to look like it is. It looks like i might be buying the premium bar oil too because the tank in the saw is 23oz and the cost per oz is going to be around 16c (if the oil was $20 a gallon) so a tank of bar oil will be $3.68 plus what ever i put in the aux oilier i don't know the capacity on that yet.

[brettl]

On the subject of edgers I don't use one. I just take  2 slabs off the log 90° to each other with the slabbing rails. Then if I want 2x6" for example I'll rip off 6" cants , then stand them on edge and rip off 2" with the mill .
Years ago I had a homemade mill permanently set at 2"on my Stihl 066 to take off 2" lumber, with a second man helping we could keep both the 090 and 066 mills working. I was running 3/8 Picco chain on the 066. We could do a 1000 b.f.  of 2"x6" a day starting with felling, limbing, bucking and milling  the trees right on the spot where the trees were felled.

Here I'm milling up 16 ft 10"x14" timbers for my chainsaw speed cutting competition last year....-40 below wind chill. :o
In a couple of weeks will be doing it all over again. :)


  

  

  

  

  

  

  

    

  

 

Great post. Great to see you asking and listening to all these helpful post op. I hope you stick with your goals and make them happen!

HolmenTree, you mention Picco CHAIN on your 066 in the quoted post. I was under the mistaken impression that Picco was somehow weak or otherwise iincompatible with larger saws. Did you have to do anything special to use the Picco? What was it's advantage in milling? Thanks