Stuck without a 4WD

[SawyerBrown]

Since I started doing custom sawmill work a couple of years ago, I've just used my 2WD Silverado 1500 that I've had for many years to pull the mill (as well as a tandem-axle flatbed trailer) to where it needs to be.  Many times I'm just pulling up on a driveway, a farm yard (with gravel), a roadside, ... something pretty solid.  For those times, it works great (and the mileage/power/performance/driveability on the roads is excellent for pulling a 4000-lb mill).  But it seems more and more I'm asked to go across a yard, a pasture, snow pack, down hills, etc ... and more times than not I can't get out without a pull, either by a 4WD or a tractor. 

I've started looking into 4WD's, but new ones are out-of-sight expensive (they've gone up a tad since I bought mine in '05! Wow!), and good used ones (especially 3/4 ton's with at least 6 1/2' beds) are rare and expensive, or they've turned over 6 digits on the odometer a long long time ago.  Don't need anything fancy, but reliable would be nice ...

So I ordered a winch mount for the front of the truck, and the necessary wiring and connectors for juice, in case there's no tractor or 4WD on the scene.  Haven't installed any of it yet.  My buddy who helped me last weekend (and took some of the nice white ash lumber) told me right away, "You need a 4WD!" even before I told him I was thinking about it ... so I've again paused to reconsider.

So maybe a couple of questions for you long-time custom sawyers or anybody else that takes equipment to a job site:  Anybody NOT have a 4WD?  (And how do you get by?)  Does it look un-professional to expect to be pulled out of a mud hole (been there, done that) ... or should we expect the customer to put the logs where that's not necessary?  Other opinions on the matter?

I guess the other thing for me is ... I really like my truck, and I definitely can't afford two ...

[DeerMeadowFarm]

I had a 2wd dumptruck. A 95 Chevy 3500 with dual wheels. I put 4 mud tires on the back and figured I was good to go; good grip, bed put a lot of weight on the rear, etc.  Not so much.... I got stuck...a lot! Not a problem when I was on my farm because I have a 4WD tractor, but still a pain in the neck. When I was away from the farm it just was awful.

I found a newer (2000) K3500 dually dump with less miles (18,000 vs. 96,000) for cheap money $4000. I would not get any truck without 4WD again. I had one when I was in highschool and since then it was 4WD until that 95 dump. Never again...

Snow really was never an issue in the dump truck, but the mud in the springtime was it's downfall.

[slider]

4WD will make life a lot easier for you.They get stuck as well but you have a way better chance of getting in and out of a bad place with one.I would not own anything else.

[Joe Hillmann]

If the customer has a tractor or 4wd why not unhook the mill from your truck and have them pull it into position with their vehicle when you are in a iffy situation?

[Verticaltrx]

I have a few 2wd trucks, a 1-ton cab chassis dually and a couple 2-ton dump trucks. Around the farm I'll get one stuck occasionally, but a set of aggressive tires on the rear and a set of tire chains will do wonders. Often if you just get in a little slick spot and cant get moving, just laying the tire chains out on the ground in front of the tires is all you need.  You'd be amazed  at the places even a big heavy 2-ton truck will go when you have a set of double row chains on it. On a small single wheel truck like yours you should be able to throw a set of  chains on it almost as fast as rigging up the winch. Keep a 2x4 or 2x6 block handy, lay them in the chains as they are laid out on the ground, then drive up on the block. This will allow you to easily maneuver the chains around without the weight of the tire on them.

Another trick, if you are on some slick mud, keep a shovel with you and throw some gravel in front of and/or behind the tires. Its fun to see the looks on dump truck and cement truck drivers faces when instead of going to get the tractor to pull them out you grab a shovel. 9 times out of ten if  they haven't completely buried it, throwing several shovels of rock in front and behind the tires, combined with a little rocking will get a truck right out.

My main trucks are 4wd and it is really nice, but I don't consider it a necessity like some folks do. People still got lots of work done before 4wd trucks became common...

[4x4American]

You most definitely need a 4x4.  For right now in the winter, good grips and chains are important to have.  You can get a pair of chains on the web in the $200-300 range.  Anyways, I'd highly recommend an old Dodge with the cummins.  The models to look for are the ones with W in front.  D is 4x2.  Look for a W-250 or a W-350.  You can pick em up pretty cheap, they're tough as nails, and easy to work on.  Insurance is cheaper for a vehicle that old, and you might could register it as a vintage to save bucks, not sure on how that all works but I've heard of people doing that.  Having 4x4 has saved my hide many times.  Not really much cell service around here.  Wouldn't want to be without it, especially with a mill on back.  Check craiglist daily, you might find a good deal pop up.  Who knows maybe if you put a wanted ad up, the right vehicle might find you.  If you're looking at a range of old vehicles, stay away from the Ford twin I beam suspension.  They didn't put them in their one ton trucks but they did put them in their 3/4 tons.

[Don_Papenburg]

I would say that you should not need it unless you want it .  Sawing is not a mud sport. logging could be but preferred not.  It is more unprofessional to ask some one to saw up some nice lumber in the pig sty or the swamp.  It is bad enough having to work in mud when it is badly needed.  Then if they want clean lumber  they need to provide clean logs.  Mud wears me out way to fast.  Saw on dry and or solid surfaces only It is safer that way.

[WV Sawmiller]

SawyerB,

    Remember the old saying "The advantage of 4WD is it allows you to get stuck in more inaccessible places."

     All trucks my wife (she prefers to drive a truck over a car for extra height and visibility) and I buy here in WV now are 4WD just because you never know when you may be out and get snow and need the extra traction to get home. I'd worry about taking my mill anywhere I can't get it out when I am ready to go so I'd think long and hard about having a client haul it to the work site where I can't reach it. He now has possession of your mill not you.

[Andries]

Good advice on all these posts, and you can only avoid snow and mud for so long. And a winch cable only reaches so far....
Your friend is the web - you'll find what you want there, at the right price.
I bought my used Tundra after a month or three of shopping. My kids call it my "oil-patch limo".
Didn't pay limo price for it!
Old saying: "two wheel drive to get stuck, four wheel drive to get out". (It another old saying - we just do it different than the folk in WV)  ;D

[JB Griffin]

I'd recommend a Ford F-250 or F-350 SRW '95-97 7.3l PowerStroke, Tough as nails, fairly easy to work on, more than enough power, much better front end than Dodge's.
Contrary to 4x4's statement the twin I-beam front end is fine. I have two right now '92 w/ 260k on it and a '87 w/ 600k on it, nothing more than a couple of u-joints and a oil seal, and the usual tie rod ends and such common to all. ;D

[JB Griffin]

I try not to be without 4x4. Too much mud and dirt roads to be without.

[4x4American]

Yea but at the end of the day you're still driving a Ford  :D

I had a 91 F250.  Biggest pile of junk I ever owned! 

[JB Griffin]

I'm sorry you had a lemon but they all make 'em every now and then.
And I know where there's a Dodge that's as stout as anyone could want w/175k on it that's had 3 complete rebuilds on the frontend $$$$$.

[4x4American]

It wasn't really fords fault, it was the culprit of many bad owners, who didn't maintain it, and jerry rigged every stinkin thing.  I traded a dirt bike for it, was all I had, and the guy with the ford was good for the trade so we made a deal.

[BBTom]

I would love to say something about how the other guys are right about having trucks that are easy to work on, since they talk about dodges and fords, they have to work on them to keep them running.  That is why I drive a GMC, so I don't have to work on it, I get to keep driving why they are wrenching. :D (sorry guys, you left yourselves open for that one and I couldn't resist the temptation)

However, to answer your question, If you are doing much portable sawmilling in a rural area, you will be asked to set up in the woods, or the field, or thru the field into the woods.  Yes, I drive a 4x4 and haven't had much problem with getting stuck.  I would not be able to service about half my customers, if I didn't have 4 wheel drive.

[dgdrls]

I'm with Don P.  It's not a mud derby and really who wants their 25K+ mill dragged through the mud or snow to get to a pile of logs?
If that's the only option the customer can supply the skidder or tractor to pull the mill or get the logs to dry accessible landing.
I have owned plenty of $x$ trucks and have done my share of outboard u joints/CV boots and joints, half shafts, front drive shafts and even transfer box work to suit me just fine,   With 2x4 you need to have a locker style/ anti-spin  rear diff some weight and emergency tire chains which range in price from $100-$700+
In the end you just need to decide if its worth the extra $$ for the amount you really need it. 

Best DGDrls

[JB Griffin]

You got us Tom, we did leave that open didn't we. :D

Point is, there is no perfect truck. (Until I put a Cummins in my Ford). :D :D :D

[4x4American]

 :D :D  yea ya did tom...

if you do a Fummins, JB, I double doggy dare you to put a 10 speed in it!  You can bolt an eaton fuller rto6610 to the cummins somehow.

[jmouton]

    i have 4x4 in my powerstroke ,   but it has been broke for a while and too busy to figure out the electrical problem,,  and i tow  our mill with it  and i have been stuck in  good looking ground,  and it sucks ,  and  doesnt look good on us ,  so yes 4x4 is important to me alot ,  just lazy in fixing my own truck ,,,and  i figure a 300,000 mile truck is cheaper to own than having 600 or more  month payments,and the customer doesnt always have the logs on concrete and level surface ,   last time  i got pulled out by a minivan ,,, dont tell anybody ,  it was embarrassing  bad enough to be towed out by a chevy  , never told my friends about it ,,,and in michigan  you need 4x4 alot  ,  we only have really 3 dry months a year ,  snow ,mud , ice , etc ,         thats my 2 cents worth ,,  get a 4x4 youll be happy



                                                                                                            jim

[Magicman]

I have not been without a 4X4 since 1969, and they have all had winches on the front.  That being said, I had to be pulled out Sunday evening.  This new truck came with MS tires that will just float on top of the ground and spin.  Also a ¾ ton truck is much heavier than a ½ ton and will get you in trouble much quicker.

[4x4American]

I have not been without a 4X4 since 1969, and they have all had winches on the front.  That being said, I had to be pulled out Sunday evening.  This new truck came with MS tires that will just float on top of the ground and spin.  Also a ¾ ton truck is much heavier than a ½ ton and will get you in trouble much quicker.

in the mud, yes, but here in the north a 3/4 ton truck being heavier is an advantage in the snow!  What do you run for a winch?

[JB Griffin]

:D :D  yea ya did tom...

if you do a Fummins, JB, I double doggy dare you to put a 10 speed in it!  You can bolt an eaton fuller rto6610 to the cummins somehow.

Easy, its called a Gear Vendors overdrive unit, bolts right up to the transfer case, instant 10 speed. :D

[4x4American]

Now that'd be one heck of a truck!

[JB Griffin]

You DanG skippy. ;D

[Magicman]

What do you run for a winch?

MileMarkers.