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Why do we waste so much wood in the USA?

Started by Engineer, January 20, 2015, 01:54:46 PM

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Engineer

I've been watching TV shows like Ax Men, where in between all the fake drama, you can see that there is a huge percentage of waste wood that appears to be left in the woods or on the landing.  I commented to my wife that I'd love to have all of the chunks of butt logs that they cut off, no matter what the species.  I also noticed on Youtube videos that originate from northern Europe, that they process a lot more of the tree, and smaller trees to boot.  Coppicing seems to be a popular practice in much of the rest of the world and there are machines made especially for processing small diameter wood into firewood.

So why don't we do this in the US?  Is it just that we are lazy?  Do we have such an overabundance of firewood that we don't need the little stuff?  I always thought my father was nuts for processing all the way down to the small branches, an inch or so in diameter, it seemed like a crazy amount of extra work.  Now I find myself doing almost the same thing, I'll leave the stuff over 2" in diameter in the woods unless it's a species like hornbeam or hickory, then I'll go even smaller.  There's been several times when I will load up my tractor bucket with dead branches and fill up the wood boiler.  Only takes a little while and they burn just as well as anything else.  The little stuff makes a heck of a bed of coals too.

I've got a neighbor who's recently cut down a bunch of trees, mostly hardwoods, to improve his view.  He took all the butts for firewood, down to about 6" diameter.  He's probably left a dozen cords of wood between 6" and 2" diameter and I know it's going to be pushed into a pile and burned.  I have a hard time with this.  I'm trying to find a good way to process these tops without too much trouble.  It may be as simple as cutting it into 4' pieces and bringing it home one bucket at a time.  At least there's no splitting involved.  Just have to find a place to put it all.  I just don't understand why it all has to go to waste.  I drive by logging jobs and see there's tops all over the place, or along the highway they've chipped all the tops and all the logs are still there.  Along the NYS thruway heading south from Albany there's a couple mile stretch where there's gotta be a hundred cords of wood all sitting there rotting, some of it is 18-24" diameter sawlogs and nobody is allowed to touch it.

Guess I'm just ranting.  I'd like to see what ideas people have for processing the smaller stuff.  Standing there with a crossbuck and chainsaw gets old and tiring after a while.  I have a "Smart-Holder" from Bailey's which has proven to be more of a pain in the butt than I expected, I'm looking into a 3-point buzz saw or a 12" electric chopsaw for cutting the little stuff up.  I'm not gonna waste it.

Windy_Acres

Around here, when a farmer buys an adjacent piece of property (tillable land), they will take out the fence line, which of course is littered with trees (sometimes a mile long or longer). They usually use a bulldozer/crawler, cut it, and push it into a pile and set it on fire. Same goes for old farmsteads. If there are some really good sized hardwoods, some of the trunks will be salvaged, but for the most part, same MO, push and burn.

For liability reasons, and time constraints (theirs) they are not receptive to anyone picking through it for firewood.

Ive been 4 wheeling out west in the sierras, at times running logging roads up in Oregon, Ive been on landings where the amount of lumber left on the ground, is mind numbing. I know nothing about the business and how that comes to pass, but was taken back by how much lumber was left behind, as a casual observer.

BradMarks

From my perspective, it's an easy answer:  economics 101.  Cost more to haul the small stuff to town than it'll bring in. Mills can only saw down to a certain size, and pulp price although improving, is only an incentive for close to town operators. On site chipping operations will recover more of the wood than hauling tops and small diameters, because it's more economical.  From a firewood perspective, I can understand the "waste"  one sees in a pile ready for burning, but burning that pile does good things for that area of soil; char and ash.  I would agree that personally I would utilize every piece of usable/burnable wood possible.

AnthonyW

I'm with you. I get stumped by the same thing. My town has taken to gathering up any down trees and auctioning them off in the fall as firewood, with proceeds going into the general fund. I'm cool with that. Personally I cut all straight branches down to 2" diameter. I don't cut up the branches that are 'feathery' with off shoots. They are too dangerous to cut with a chainsaw. I don't have a special technique, just cut to length with a chainsaw.

I have inquired about the down trees. Along the limited access roadways (highways) it is illegal to stop and collect the down wood. Along state and town roads, the logs are property of the town and/or landowner. Kind of weird. If one gets permission from the landowner to retrieve the wood then you can, unless the town removes them first then they are the town's.
'97 Wood-Mizer LT25 All Manual with 15HP Kohler

beenthere

QuoteSo why don't we do this in the US?

Simply cannot afford to pick up the junk.
Go ahead and mandate that it be picked up, and you (we) will have to pay to have it removed.

On the flip side, there are those who get a mandate that a certain volume of timber cut on Nat'l Forest has to be left on the ground to rot.. so the little critters and mites, etc. have a home. Was on a timber sale in OR once where the USFS Forester explained that one perfectly fine specimen of a large tree (30" dbh on this one) had to be felled and left laying on the ground. Along side it, a perfectly dead tree could not be felled as a substitute for the live tree sacrificed.

The forests are being used to satisfy every tom, dick, and harry (as well as the jane's) with little to do with good productive forestry management for wood. My opinion... ;)

If you want to see devastation after a clearcut, and removal of just the large timber, go to Alaska and see what the native people are doing with the forests that were given to them. Meanwhile, the USFS cannot cut anything.
But when the natives run out of timber to cut, they trade that land back to the public in exchange for more timber land to do their cutting. Pretty bad, but then that is our mode of operandi nowdays.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

thecfarm

I had some wood cut on my land. I used the cut offs in my OWB. Some was 3 feet across.This was all white pine,so without the OWB,there is really no way to burn that stuff. I burn ALOT of small wood and stuff that don't look the best in my OWB. One of my friends laughs at my wood pile.  ;D But I do what you do Engineer. I do have a OWB that will take a 54 inch stick. So this really helps out on the amount of small stuff that I can burn. I don't like to waste any wood either.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

gspren

   The common way of measuring firewood is the cord but it would be more accurate to say we need a certain number of tons of seasoned wood to heat for the season. It takes a lot more time and energy to get a good ton of 2" branches cut, hauled and stacked than say 6" wood so if it's in the woods I stop about 4" while if it fell in a field or pasture where I need to move it anyway than I'll cut much smaller. For me 8-12 inch trees is where I seem to get the most done per hour of my time.
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, Kubota 400 RTV, Kubota BX 2670, Ferris Zero turn

nctacoma

Any wood that is left in the woods and allowed to rot and return back into the soil is considered biomass.  This is a good thing.  While not necessarily the nicest thing to look at when it is first cut, if it is cut into small pieces or run over with machinery, it will rot quicker and nourish the next round of trees to grow.

So it is not wasted, just re-used as fertilizer.  The forests have been doing this for millions of years before we started managing them.

Ljohnsaw

I haven't had a wood burning fireplace in about 10 years, but when I did, I'd go to FS land to get firewood.  You had to go to a Ranger Station to obtain a "permit".  You would buy a cord at a time.  They give you three 1/3 cord tickets for $10 (IIRC).  They figure the average truck could carry 1/3 of a cord.  They would also give you a hand-drawn map of the local forest roads and identify recent clear cut areas.  You had the best luck there for volume for next burn season but you could stop anywhere in the forest to take dead-down wood.  You cold not cut standing dead.  You load up your truck/trailer and attach a ticket (filling in the date) so if you get pulled over, you don't get cited.

I would go with a friend (with his own truck) and it became a running joke - "a great day for a drive".  Since the maps weren't to scale, you would end up driving 10 to 30 miles on really bad dirt roads.  Our "free"  ::) wood got expensive.  He broke his rear window, I got a flat and lost a really nice watch and got attacked by yellow jackets :(
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Ford_man

There were a lot of BIG trees and lots of them before some educated person started managing the forests. smiley_tom_dizzy03

Southside

Maybe we have become too soft here in the US? Perhaps it just pound foolishness.  Last summer my neighbor across the fence had a good size oak fall over, it was 1/2 dead before it fell anyway.  Well, I saw him out there for the better part of a weeek with his tractor and a saw - figured he was cutting it up as he burns wood.  Nope, later in the summer I "discovered" the pile on my side of the fence, all cut to what ever size he could toss around with his bucket and in about a 4' tall pile now with the root ball lying next to it.  I made a point next time I saw him to let him know that had he simply called I would have happily brought over my skidder and excavator and cleaned up the whole thing in probably 1/2 hour in exchange for the wood. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
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Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
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Corley5

When it's left to go back on the ground it's a good thing.  It bothers me when biomass is buried in a landfill when it could be put to a good use.
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Jhenderson

What gets me about out west are the 3ft tall stumps. They waste more wood than I cut some days.

Brad_S.

Quote from: Engineer on January 20, 2015, 01:54:46 PM
I'm looking into a 3-point buzz saw or a 12" electric chopsaw for cutting the little stuff up. 
I just picked up a used 3 point pto powered buzz saw to cut up slabs and reject lumber. I love the thing! Respect it as you would any potentially dangerous tool...I think it is safer than a chainsaw. Certainly faster!
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

brendonv

We do firewood harvest all winter for a guy. I too am amazed at what we waste. Its too bad. I skimmed through above posts but agree it just cost us too much to get every piece.  $1 in diesel fuel to get .25 cents worth of wood.

I too watch you tube vids from around the world and i think we are stuck on big machines.  Those micro operations else wear really get work done and get the most out of the forest it seems.
"Trees live a secret life only revealed to those that climb them"

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https://www.facebook.com/pages/Vorio-Tree-Experts-LLC/598083593556636

John Mc

I leave anything smaller than 3" or so to rot and return nutrients to the soil. Most of the nutrients are in the surface layers (bark and just under the bark, as well as leaves). By leaving the small stuff, you are leaving a good bit more nutrients than you might expect if you just judged by volume or weight.  I don't consider this "wasted". I consider it an investment in future forest productivity.

My other reason for leaving the small stuff is that it's just too labor intensive to get it usable for firewood.  My one exception is that I will burn smaller sizes of buckthorn. I HATE that stuff, and it's taking over parts of my woodland -- so I tend to terminate with extreme prejudice, even if it doesn't make a lot of sense financially or in terms of time spent.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

bandmiller2

North America has always had vast forests and we have been like the kid in front of a bowl of gum balls. Nothing left in the woods is wasted. The real crime is housing developments and strip malls that destroy forests. European countrys conserve because they don't have much left. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

4x4American

Quote from: ljohnsaw on January 20, 2015, 08:34:46 PM
I haven't had a wood burning fireplace in about 10 years, but when I did, I'd go to FS land to get firewood.  You had to go to a Ranger Station to obtain a "permit".  You would buy a cord at a time.  They give you three 1/3 cord tickets for $10 (IIRC).  They figure the average truck could carry 1/3 of a cord.  They would also give you a hand-drawn map of the local forest roads and identify recent clear cut areas.  You had the best luck there for volume for next burn season but you could stop anywhere in the forest to take dead-down wood.  You cold not cut standing dead.  You load up your truck/trailer and attach a ticket (filling in the date) so if you get pulled over, you don't get cited.

I would go with a friend (with his own truck) and it became a running joke - "a great day for a drive".  Since the maps weren't to scale, you would end up driving 10 to 30 miles on really bad dirt roads.  Our "free"  ::) wood got expensive.  He broke his rear window, I got a flat and lost a really nice watch and got attacked by yellow jackets :(

I wish they did that here on the east coast.  Here, it's illegal to take downed wood that's on the side of the road.  Why? No idea...don't make sense to me. 
Boy, back in my day..

CJennings

There isn't much U.S. Forest Service land in NY state 4x4American. Just a little bit in the Finger Lakes area. You can get the firewood permits on the Green Mountain National Forest in VT last I heard. I don't know if the same is true for the Finger Lakes, which is technically operated from the Rutland VT headquarters.

DeerMeadowFarm

I too don't like to waste wood. I process down pretty small, 3" or so. Having a buzz saw was the best thing I ever made for this type of work. I pile up the limbs that are 3" to 6" or so off to the side of my larger logs. When I cut and split the larger pieces I'll fill my dumptruck about 3/4 full than top it off with the limbs as I cut them on the buzz saw.

 

sawguy21

Years ago, many in fact, my buddy and I got permission from a logging contractor to salvage fence posts and firewood from the brush pile as long as we didn't make a mess. We pulled a lot of wood out of that pile, apparently we are no longer permitted to do that. The tops are chipped and used for fuel at the mill steam plant.
What really breaks my heart is seeing wood ctl, especially birch, and stacked along utility rights of way. I don't know if it gets sold, chipped or burned but we are not allowed to touch it.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

cbla

Not just in the USA! Here on the East Coast of Canada as well. A lot of land here is privately owned and it used to be after a block was harvested if there was some wood left over you could talk to the land owner and would usually get permission to take it. Unfortunately some people took the permission too far and would start cutting standing wood. Most times now it just rots in piles.

enigmaT120

I use some pretty small poles for firewood, depending on how far I have to carry/drag them through the woods to my landing.  I bought a crib from northern toolhttps://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=position"> Note:Please read the Forestry Forum's postion on this company; they call it something else, but I can stack a bunch of poles in it and saw them all up with a few passes of my chainsaw without the little pieces flying all over the place or into my face.

I agree that what I leave in the woods is not going to waste, but I do want to minimize fire danger and leave at least some trails clear enough that I can get around in it easily.

Ed Miller
Falls City, Or

Thewoodman

Often the wood needs to be within 10km from your base to make it economic. Further and your just   giving money to your mechanic.
Manuka / Radiata Pine / Redwood

landscraper

In the land clearing business around here it's hard to be competitive unless you have outlets for the wood, it's too dang expensive to haul to an "approved" facility, or to tubgrind.  We have to take all the grade logs and firewood out right off the top to help offset the clearing cost, and even when we chip or tubgrind we still have to dispose of that waste, luckily there's a composting facility that will take the chips and mulch for low $.  Stumps, twigs and leaves are the only part of the tree that are "waste" in my mind.  Everything else can either make money, or at least pay for itself. 


Firewood is energy independence on a personal scale.

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