advice on tj 450c tranny

so il logger · January 14, 2015, 03:51:07 PM

hi everyone. Im new to the forum and looking for some advice. A few months back i got a 95 jack 450c grapple. I have been working bugs out of it since. The issue im dealing with at the moment is the tractor has to warm up 45 minutes before it will move. But if i operate winch after 15 minutes of warm up it will take right off. machine has new charge pump and sealing kit. And has 260 psi at charge pump. I really appreciate any advice and thank you in advance

coxy · January 14, 2015, 04:12:10 PM

welcome to the ff where are you at my be oil to thick or sticky oil port :-\ my cat takes a while to move but I have 30 weight in it its like roof tar on a day like today

so il logger · January 14, 2015, 04:26:39 PM

Thanks for the reply. Im located in southern Illinois. Today it is 25 deg. It does it even in the 40s. I am running hytrans that is Allison c4 certified. That's what the local dealer recommended. I am really thinking a sticking valve as well. Its strange how winching in a foot or so cable allows it to move

coxy · January 14, 2015, 05:18:28 PM

how is the filter is there a line that maybe kinked does the tranny have a screen in side the cats have one on the bottom of the tranny under a tear drop cover don't know any thing about them just throwing out ideas

so il logger · January 14, 2015, 05:40:15 PM

I replaced all the filters on the machine. it has a sump screen on bottom left of tranny I pulled it and cleaned/ inspected it. As far as lines they look ok. The charge pump growls until it gets warmed up but is carrying good psi. I drained all the oil from trans and replaced it with the recommended oil weight. after it warms up it pulls great. just seems that it must have something wrong with it by it having to run so long ???

coxy · January 14, 2015, 06:05:20 PM

the charge pump should not make any noise un less there is a blockage some place and by putting the winch in gear it may be bypassing it some how or it is making it build more pressure I had a hydro pump push oil out of the vent and fill cap when it was cold drove me nuts and found there was a line that was coming a part on the in side and was making to much pressure and making it foam up when the oil was warm it was ok only when it was cold and the pump would make some strange noises till it got warm maybe the charge pump is crap even if its new

so il logger · January 14, 2015, 06:12:24 PM

I thought maybe the pump was junk but shop said if its making that much psi its good. I also noticed that until it warms up it pushes fluid out of the winch control spool on front of winch and it is foamy. it has the t40 winch which I think is same as deere. I think I will like the machine if I ever get it where I can really use it. Guy that had it before just ran it he didn't maintain it like we would have.

treeslayer2003 · January 14, 2015, 07:06:05 PM

what trans? allison or clark?

so il logger · January 14, 2015, 07:13:41 PM

It has the clark hurth model # 13 7hr32420-6 It is 4 spd

treeslayer2003 · January 14, 2015, 07:27:37 PM

hmm, never had a clark act that way........oldseabee could maybe help if he sees this.

North River Energy · January 14, 2015, 07:30:31 PM

Not familiar with that particular application, but if the pump is growling and foaming the oil, you might have an air leak/blockage on the suction side?

Also possible to have adequate pressure but marginal flow.

so il logger · January 14, 2015, 07:39:37 PM

any info is greatly appreciated. I cant find any exploded diagram of tranny on net. and its a new machine to me

kiko · January 14, 2015, 09:18:05 PM

The charge pump is sucking air. The regulator is in between the charge pump and the torque convertor housing . There are gaskets and orings between each mating surface. This where you will likely find the suction leak as the pump must draw the suction through the regulator valve. Also the regulator slides on the same studs as the pump if the regulator moved when the pump was replaced but not removed to check condition or replace the gasket towards housing you may want to check it out. A suction leak will soon destroy the pump.

so il logger · January 14, 2015, 11:10:06 PM

The charge pump was recently replaced when i got the skidder. however the idiot that owned it before me didn't buy a sealing kit which is the gaskets and o rings that you reffered to. That being said I just bought the kit to re seal the pump and installed it. kit included 3 gaskets 5 o rings 3 springs and a steel clad rubber seal for pump drive shaft. No change other than boosted psi by 20 psi. Do you think pump is already shot? Thanks for all the help i appreciate it

so il logger · January 15, 2015, 02:42:32 PM

One more piece of info i forgot to mention. While the machine is warming up the gauge shows 260 psi. pump growls while cold but if i shift to fwd or rev the pump stops growling and psi drops out to nothing for approx 5 seconds. then growl comes back and psi shoots right back to 260. but still wont move until it gets really warm. :-\

so il logger · January 16, 2015, 05:27:51 PM

Well im pretty confident that its sucking air. Now gotta find out where

kiko · January 16, 2015, 09:30:25 PM

If it is not around the trans pump or regulator, then it is internal piping.

so il logger · January 16, 2015, 10:37:08 PM

Is it common for internal piping to leak? I thought about pulling trans valve body tomoro and checking for stuck valve or broken spring. If i was to way overfill the trans i could troubleshoot the internal piping right?

so il logger · January 17, 2015, 01:45:45 AM

I am going to take pic of the 450 tomorrow and hopefully figure out how to post the pic on here.

CX3 · January 17, 2015, 04:17:52 PM

As long as charge pump is around 260 and holds steady, I would run it. My 380 was the same way. It would take 20 minutes to charge, but it held good. If you shut the machine off warm, then restarted soon, it would take even longer to charge. They told me if the pressure held, it was good to go. ????

so il logger · January 17, 2015, 04:41:57 PM

Mine holds 260 but when I shift to fwd or rev the pressure drops to nothing for a few seconds then shoots back. Also the main hose from pump to filter pulsates and jumps around. ??? I have been talking to a real nice mechanic from over near you cx3

CX3 · January 17, 2015, 07:46:52 PM

I wouldnt run it in that condition. You will be replacing major tranny parts.

Whos this mechanic

so il logger · January 17, 2015, 08:20:37 PM

A guy name of greg at Ozark machinery out of west plains mo. The tractor pulls like a train after warming up. But I agree on not using it. Any other ideas???

CX3 · January 17, 2015, 09:17:06 PM

Ozark machinery is a good place. Thats all they do is work on forestry equipment.

My old 380 would prime up to 260 then drop pressure to 0. then do the same thing. etc. until it finally took pressure and was fine all day every day. It did a lot of the same things yours is doing, and when pressure came up it would work like a beast. Its pulled at least 3 million feet for me with no problems and I sold it to a guy and hes pulled that much as well. No problems. But who knows it may blow tomorrow.

so il logger · January 17, 2015, 11:27:39 PM

this 450 gets to 260 psi soon as it starts. but still wont move until it warms the fluid. No mechanic that ive talked to has any explanation. CX3 in your opinion is it worth pulling the shift valve body and taking a look?