Cold skidder

tantoy · December 20, 2014, 11:35:10 AM

The engine coolant is drawn from the bottom of the radiator core by the water pump and is forced through the oil cooler
and into the cylinder block. The coolant circulates up through the cylinder block into the cylinder head, then to the water
manifold and thermostat housing. From the thermostat housing, the coolant returns to the radiator where it passes down
a series of tubes and is cooled by the air stream created by the fan.
When starting a cold engine or when the coolant is below operating temperature, the coolant is restricted at the
thermostat housing(s) and a by-pass provides water- circulation within the engine during the warm-up period.
Per my Detroit manual.

jwilly3879 · December 20, 2014, 03:04:55 PM

If the probe for the temp gauge is not immersed in coolant the readings will be way off. Is it possible you coolant is below the probe?

What David-L said is important, you need to check the action of the thermostat in a pan of water with a thermometer, just because it's new doesn't mean it's good.

The temp probe will pick up heat from the block just sitting and when you start it the cool water from the radiator will cause the reading to drop, especially if the t-stat is no good.

Ed_K · December 20, 2014, 04:19:20 PM

I you have water swirling in the radiator when you first start it up, then the thermostat is open and doing you no good.When I had my 4-53 rebuilt the thermostat wouldn't open and the temp when up to 220 in mins.They replaced it and now it runs at 196 198 if i'm pulling a good hitch.

timberlinetree · December 23, 2014, 06:01:38 AM

Thanks for the help. Ugh! I think I got the wrong water pump off the internet. Got thinking about when our basement flooded and how that pump worked and this engine is pumping backwards. I should have checked it before installing. Getting a new one from Atlantic Detroit today. Ugh it's no fun fixing something twice/confused diagnosing something because of someone else's mess up! No running skidder and now more rain, Walmart hiring?

timberlinetree · December 24, 2014, 05:52:58 AM

Ugh x2! Waited until 3 to call about the pump and the one that was shipped was damaged :-\? Maybe today and the shop that was reparing a hydraulic cyl said the packing kit was short one seal. At lease its to muddy to run anyways.

lopet · December 24, 2014, 05:38:13 PM

We all get those days when things just don't wanna work out. And sometimes you think there is just too much going wrong at the same time. But like you said, it's too muddy anyways so you get to enjoy the holidays

and hope you're up and running when it freezes up again.

Maine logger88 · December 24, 2014, 05:56:14 PM

I feel your pain I have been 2 weeks tinkering on skidders then last week finally cut a small load of pine around my grandfathers place while it was there anyway then Saturday getting ready to move it and it wouldn't start so I had to get the starter fixed got that back together Monday and moved on to a lot had 2 good days yesterday and today keep my fingers crossed and see how Friday goes lol. I hope you get back going again soon! How did the nighttime firewood end up working out?
Merry Christmas!

tantoy · December 24, 2014, 06:50:04 PM

Quote from: timberlinetree on December 23, 2014, 06:01:38 AM
Thanks for the help. Ugh! I think I got the wrong water pump off the internet. Got thinking about when our basement flooded and how that pump worked and this engine is pumping backwards. I should have checked it before installing. Getting a new one from Atlantic Detroit today. Ugh it's no fun fixing something twice/confused diagnosing something because of someone else's mess up! No running skidder and now more rain, Walmart hiring?

So you think the pump was for an engine that turns ccw when looking at front damper pulley? Seems that there would have to be four pumps made for these engines? 1, ccw left side. 2, ccw right side. 3, cw left side. 4, cw right side. Just thinking out loud.

timberlinetree · December 25, 2014, 02:22:54 PM

Good/bad news. Good news is I know more about Detroit 353's. The bad I was wrong about the water pump! This is what I was thinking and why.

This is the pump we use for our basement. It has a wide bottom witch sucks up from the bottom and forced out the garden hose fitting on top.

This is the wide bottom on the 353 pump just like the other so I thought it would pull water from this end. Wrong!

And I thought the water would be forced out the top just like the basement pump. Wrong

I thought the water would be drawn from the bottom into the left side and squeeze into the getting smaller right side building pressure and exit thru the small fiting up to the thermostat. Wrong.

This diagram shows it flowing the opposite direction. Water flowing down the tube(bypass) into the top of the pump.tantoy explained this(thanks)but couldn't understand it with out the diagram.

I worked my way up at Atlantic Detroit from the counter guy to a head boss that had 20+ yrs of experience and he knew his stuff. He has never ever heard of this problem im having and is stumped. I think the problem has to do with the thermostat. Maybe the housing isn't holding the stat in place? Any thoughts would really help! Thanks! Ml 88 the nite work really helped out and I learned a lot about sparks and dust! What I thought was neat is this engine can be built 8 ways! Only 2 water pumps lh/rh.

8 ways!

jwilly3879 · December 25, 2014, 03:40:12 PM

It makes sense there is something going on with the tstat, if the water pump was bad the engine would overheat, not run cold.

lopet · December 25, 2014, 09:35:22 PM

I guess that engine being built eight different ways doesn't make things easier. Hope you get it figured out soon before that car hood gets scratched up too bad ;D

Holmes · December 26, 2014, 06:49:23 PM

I just had the tstat changed on my 1999 GMC van. The gauge never went above 130 for years , no it reads a little over 200 once it's warmed up.

timberlinetree · December 28, 2014, 05:59:33 AM

Getting closer! Some one from the Detroit forum gave me some key information. The bypass should be blocked by the tstat when hot. I can see the hole that blockage would occur with the RIGHT tstat. The one in it and the part store one I got look like a Chevy and the one on line but I also saw a different type. Talking at the dump, cat has the same type of set up to. Will get one monday. Thanks for the help. Weather, new seals in blade cyln and a hot skidder, looking forward to this week! 8)

timberlinetree · December 30, 2014, 06:03:06 AM

Ugh! Called around best we could do was have it delivered to Marcia work maybe today. Cost $50 for the part and $50 to ship overnite. At lease we made some progress on the sugar house yesterday.

David-L · December 30, 2014, 06:11:54 AM

car Quest #6028 was the stat I am using with no issues. 180 degrees put it in a month ago. getting closer. freeze up, or so they say is close. I will be working overtime and then some.

timberlinetree · December 30, 2014, 06:48:40 AM

Thanks Dave. We tried that number and nothing came up?60208 came up with the Chevy style. Carquest had a listing for a 353 and bought it but it didn't work :-\? Does yours have a bypass? Detroit parts .com had a listing for two. A rapid heat around $15(same price as parts store) and another type(around $50). Mybe I missed something or got a wrong on in the box. This is really fustrationing me. Thanks for your help and work safe out there!

timberlinetree · January 01, 2015, 06:27:24 AM

After spending $50 to overnite the wrong tstat( our fault) I went to Napa and they must have liked Marcia's Christmas cookies because they broke out the book( the one w pics 8)) and we found ones with the foot, but didn't have the one I needed. After a half tank of gas and 4 trips to the auto parts store WE HAVE HEAT. stayed at 160 the whole time and got some wood out. ( skidded 5 cords, forwarder 4 cords, cut & split 1 cord that's on the truck and have 1 cord cut ready to split 8)) nice to be working 8)!

David-L · January 01, 2015, 07:11:52 AM

that was a GM part #, my old stat was a perfect match and have had no issues with the 180 degree. Chevy/GM ( Detroit was a GM product ). Glad to her your running. moving back to the Pine lot as the skid road as of yesterday was finally froze up.

lopet · January 01, 2015, 10:43:16 AM

Quote from: timberlinetree on January 01, 2015, 06:27:24 AM
WE HAVE HEAT. stayed at 160 the whole time and got some wood out.

Look at it as a delayed Christmas gift.

timberlinetree · January 11, 2015, 07:35:47 AM

This will not end! Ugh!
Update: skidder is running steady @ 160 8).
1:Napa part number was 195, box said 160 and under that 180. Figured I got the 160. No problem.
2 since didn't let gasket material dry it was leaking and needed to fix,and wanted 180 temp.
3 picked up a part number 195 ,180 deg.
This is what I got!

The one with out the box is working @ 160. After looking at the box it was the same as the other one and the 180 was smuged to look like 160. So same box,2 different tstats?? I'm glad we're working! Thanks for the help!