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Problems Cutting Stickers

Started by pine, January 04, 2015, 05:14:42 PM

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pine

I seem to have an intermittent problem that pops up at the most inconvenient times and I don't seem to be able to determine a consistent root cause.  I am certain those of you that have millions or near millions of BF under your belts can give me a solution to  the problem. 

If I have a cant that I want to turn into stickers (sometimes planting stakes but for this purpose they are the same thing) I will cut the cant into 1 inch boards then turn the lot of them and cut stickers at 1 inch intervals. 
Seem straight forward and it is until I get down to the last 3-4 inches where the stickers seem to get slung out of the clamps by the force of the blade in the cut.  The clamping system on my mill is designed so that the lower couple of inches are near impossible to get a good tight clamp.  I have put in "consumable spacer blocks" to help that get sawn as well but have met with mixed success. 

I used the term intermittent up top because there are times that I have no problem at all and everything stays on the bed in place all the way down to the last set of 1 inch stickers are cut.

I have tried to figure out if it could be related to the blade sharpness (drag in the cut) but does not seem to be the case.

The problem seems to occur regardless of whether the stickers being cut are of shorter versus longer length.  My mill only has one clamp ( I often wish it had another clamp) but it does have multiple squaring arms.

Anyone else have the problem and what did you do to alleviate it?

Magicman

You failed to indicate which sawmill that you have.

My first thought when I was reading was that your blade was not sharp.  The blade should glide through the wood with no pulling or tearing.  It should not disrupt the clamped flitches.

Next is that stress in the boards are twisting and causing the final couple of inches to twist out.  Flip the stack when you are about half way through.  That will put the pith area on the bottom which should have less stress tendencies to twist out.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

thecfarm

One clamp is kinda hard too. I have one on each bunk,that would be 4. I only use 2 at a time.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

POSTON WIDEHEAD

After you have sawn all your boards to 1 inch think, all of your stickers will be at least 1 inch thick on one side.
When you get down to sawing the last 3 or 4 rows of stickers, the pressure from the clamp wants to kick everything straight up regardless of any thing else. This has happened to be before.

Really nothing to worry over. If ya can't saw the last few in a 1 inch square, saw what you can. Whats left will be at least 1 inch turned the right way.  :) They can still be used for stickers.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

drobertson

Yea, at times I have not clamped up tight, and the boards will cock a bit,  as mentioned flipping the boards at the right time will help in keeping the stickers consistent.  I end up using a good solid sticker for the holder on the last cut.  Square cuts are pretty key on keeping the batch flat and square, and as mentioned, even if you have a few that are cati-whompas ;D they still work for stickers and stakes, just not quiet as pretty ;D
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Chuck White

I agree with "turn them over" when you get through the pith!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Robert Owens

Although I am new to sawing, having just started this past summer, I have found that reducing the number of boards turned up to cut into stickers at a time will help with reducing the pull on the boards as you get down to 3-4inches. I think this is due to the width being greater than the height when clamping a lot of 1 inch pieces with the various stresses they may have. At least this has helped me this past year make consistent sized stickers.

Chuck White

Might also help to put a cant between your "sticker boards" and the logstops.

You'll be sawing out "inch boards" and stickers at the same time.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

pine

Quote from: Chuck White on January 04, 2015, 07:09:37 PM
Might also help to put a cant between your "sticker boards" and the logstops.

You'll be sawing out "inch boards" and stickers at the same time.

Now that is a really good idea.  i will try it next time.  Of course there is always the last group.

I will also try flipping then at the half-way point as several suggested, that sure can't hurt.

drobertson

Pine, it's not always at the "half way point"  keeping an eye on the bow, checking the bed rails for the stock to be laying flat, if it happens is my indicator as when to flip.  now sharp blades are a good recipe for sure ;D ;D but edging, or whatever you may call it on a few thin boards, less than new seem to work in this instance. 
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Brucer

Sawdust between the boards can cause that to happen. The sawdust acts like thin spacers between the boards. As you clamp them, the sawdust compresses at the clamp level but not above the clamp. That makes the boards fan out and tend to spring up.

Turning them over gives you a chance to knock off any sawdust. Putting fewer boards between the clamps as you saw down reduces the spreading.

Sometimes the boards will just plain do it anyway >:(.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

WDH

Pine,

I have the same problem.  On my manual mill, it is hard to clamp the boards tight enough as you near the bed to keep the boards from cocking.  Like has been said, at least two faces on the sticker will be the right dimension.  I run mine through the planer so it is easier to know which face is the right face when placing the sticker.  Planed face goes down.   
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

backwoods sawyer

When you are flipping the boards and knocking the sawdust off sort you best two boards and put them to the outside as they are the ones that are clamping the rest.

When I am milling a job that wants stickers I stack up the edgings and set the mill to drop in the desired multiple, and flip any board that cleaned up one edge with the last pass, once they all have a square edge down I pick a size board that is on the cut list 4-6-8-10 and take stickers till I reach that size. If running low on stickers it will be 4-6 if we are getting plenty 8-10. Saves making that last cut and having the whole mess twist up out of the clamp
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

StimW

I have some of those cheapo one handed wood clamps ($1.99 on sale) that I will clamp up from the bottom of the stack out of the way to hold boards better when needed cutting stand up boards.
New HF Band Mill
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Magicman

I realize that this is kinda another subject, but stickering and drying the boards before you make the stickers will produce better stickers.  Boards are much easier to sticker than stickers.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

drobertson

I just thought of another item when doing stickers, while on portable jobs, I pick the smallest, clearest, preferably completely clear log or two and suggest that these be made into stickers, no knots. The whole of the batch is nearly perfect for stickers ready for the day of lumber stacking.   I believe backwoods mentioned stopping at a nominal dimension? 6" or better?  this is most often the case while making random stickers through the day, the outside edgings make great stickers, while producing very nice usable nominal sized lumber.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Magicman

He also mentioned that as soon as the boards square up on top they need to be flipped so that the wane is turned up.   It's frustrating to try to clamp wane on the bottom.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

drobertson

Oh yea, the ole wane on the clamping face ;D  wane can be a pain ;D while trying to clamp, the ole crook and cock comes into play nearly every time ;D.  A square edge really helps keeping boards straight up and down as well as a tight clamping of the stock.  My wanny boards go on separate, another time set back but, most of the time there are just a few, and when it's done, they are square and nominal.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

4x4American

Pine I have similar trouble.  I had a guy who wanted me to saw him 1"x1"x16' pieces out of oak.  not sure what his goal was there but it was a pain in the neck to keep them from turning sideways towards the end.  Two clamps on the mill would've been great at that point in life.
Boy, back in my day..

AnthonyW

I have run into a similar problem with trying to edge (or make stickers) from 10+ boards at once. Having a manual log clamp, I found trying to squeeze the gap out of that many boards at once is difficult. Easier with two people where one can hold the boards vertically and start to remove the gap and then have the clamper person squeeze out the rest. I have also started to use 8" long oak wedges between the board and clamp for extra pressure prior to tightening the clamp.

Pine: Which mill do you have? Is the clamp manual or hydraulic?
'97 Wood-Mizer LT25 All Manual with 15HP Kohler

Magicman

It would help with questions if everyone would add their sawmill as well as their location to their profile.  Just a thought.   :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

backwoods sawyer

Quote from: AnthonyW on January 05, 2015, 08:54:11 AM
I have run into a similar problem with trying to edge (or make stickers) from 10+ boards at once. Easier with two people where one can hold the boards vertically and start to remove the gap and then have the clamper person squeeze out the rest.

Having a second set of hands is helpful even on a hydraulic mill.
When little Jo gets them all stood up and the clamp is still loose is when I give the whole bunch a good shake, so the sawdust and chunks fall out, then she clamps them up tight at a point higher then midway.


Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

Stephen1

I like to saw stickers with a small cant behind the boards to clamp to and flip the straight edges back down to the bed as I go. It also helps keep the sawdust out as
Brucer says.
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

boscojmb

I make a good amount of stickers / stakes using the same method. I cut 1" boards, then turn on edge, clamp, and cut again.






The important things I do are:

I Don't start out using logs with alot of sweep.

When I turn the 1" boards on end, I make sure they are square, and clamped perfectly, before I make my first "edging" cut.  This is the most important part, boards / stickers can be kept straight, but if something gets out of whack on the last 3-4" it makes the last cuts impossible.

It seems like more boards the better. I try to cut 16+ at a time.

I edge flitches seperately, then process them when I have enough of the same size.

I usually cut down almost half way through the boards, and then flip, and clamp again. I sometimes have someone sit on the stack of boards to make sure they are sitting flat while I reclamp them.







I hope this helps.

John B.

Log-Master LM4

4x4American

Boy, back in my day..

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