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Questions galore

Started by cntryby, December 26, 2014, 11:51:56 AM

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cntryby

I'm just getting started with this stuff and have loads of questions. I've found several answers with searches but find the subjects and  descriptions vary dramatically, making searches difficult.

So as I have more questions I will try to return to this thread. If the mods would prefer to do something different that's fine just let me know.

1)  I see some sawyers sawing slabs and leaving the edges "live", is there a drying advantage to this or is this just a convenience factor for those that have edgers?

2)  For logs that aren't skidded through the dirt, is it worth peeling them prior to sawing? If so, which is easier, pressure washing, chainsaw debarking tool (log wizard) or hand held scraper with a shovel handle?

3)  I'm seeing more and more about uses for sweet gum. Is there really a consensus on the uses of this wood. I need to cut some lumber for barns and trailer decking. These threads are making me think hard about not pushing the sweetgum in a pile and burning it.

4)  Does trees for fence post require the sapwood to be removed?

5)  Is there a moisture % required for lumber or post prior to treatment.

6)  Which is better for loading logs onto the mill, tongs or forks?

Grey haired riders didn't get that way from pure luck.

pineywoods

I've played around with sweetgum a bit, I have plenty of it..The secret to usable sweetgum lumber is to quartersaw it. That will require large logs to get usable board width. The center around the pith of a sweetgum log is pretty much worthless, don't even make firewood. It will warp and twist around knots, just like most other trees. I quartersawed a big old sweetgum, stacke and stickered the boards and let them air dry. Member JohnHarvey made a dining table from some of it, nice, works easily and takes a stain nicely. Sweetgum spalts easily, but exposed to the weather, it will rot quickly. Pay close attention to stacking and stickering.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Ianab

1 - Some end users prefer that "live" edge for aesthetic reasons. You can put live edge siding on a building (only edge one side, leave the other with the natural curves. The other is furniture, coffee tables, bar tops etc which can look really cool with the natural edge. You can always edge the board later if you change you mind, but you can't put that live edge back

2 - Depends. Some areas the bark tends to collect wind blown sand, VERY abrasive on the saw blade. So it's worth debarking even "clean" logs because the blades last much longer. Method? It seems to depend on the species of tree, some peel easy with a bark spud or pressure washer etc. Others the barks is tough and you spend more time debarking than you would changing blades and resharpening.

3 - Very few woods are totally useless. Some may have issues that make them less desirable . But if you can source them for practically nothing, and can use them, or sell them at a profit, then go for it.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

cntryby

Quote from: pineywoods on December 26, 2014, 01:22:14 PM
I've played around with sweetgum a bit, I have plenty of it..The secret to usable sweetgum lumber is to quartersaw it. That will require large logs to get usable board width. The center around the pith of a sweetgum log is pretty much worthless, don't even make firewood. It will warp and twist around knots, just like most other trees. I quartersawed a big old sweetgum, stacke and stickered the boards and let them air dry. Member JohnHarvey made a dining table from some of it, nice, works easily and takes a stain nicely. Sweetgum spalts easily, but exposed to the weather, it will rot quickly. Pay close attention to stacking and stickering.

What is spalts?

I read about putting it up green, how much shrinkage would there be? For example; with board & baton siding I could come back later to cover the seams?
Grey haired riders didn't get that way from pure luck.

cntryby

Quote from: Ianab on December 26, 2014, 01:36:52 PM
1 - Some end users prefer that "live" edge for aesthetic reasons. You can put live edge siding on a building (only edge one side, leave the other with the natural curves. The other is furniture, coffee tables, bar tops etc which can look really cool with the natural edge. You can always edge the board later if you change you mind, but you can't put that live edge back.

Aesthetics I understand, but no advantages to drying or processing?

2 - Depends. Some areas the bark tends to collect wind blown sand, VERY abrasive on the saw blade. So it's worth debarking even "clean" logs because the blades last much longer. Method? It seems to depend on the species of tree, some peel easy with a bark spud or pressure washer etc. Others the barks is tough and you spend more time debarking than you would changing blades and resharpening.

Mainly pines, loblolly.

3 - Very few woods are totally useless. Some may have issues that make them less desirable . But if you can source them for practically nothing, and can use them, or sell them at a profit, then go for it.

For now, all the trees I'm cutting are mine. Cost of fuel for the saws & tractor are all they cost me. Quite a few good size sweetgums on the place, just hate to burn'm if I can get some use out of them. maybe even sell them to a cross tie yard?

Grey haired riders didn't get that way from pure luck.

Shotgun

cntryby,

Regarding your question about spalts.

You have a whole new area of the Forestry Forum to explore, along with many other areas. Look under 'Extras' at the top of most pages, for 'The Forestry Forum Dictionary' and then look for 'spalt'. You'll find a whole new world.
Joined The Forestry Forum 5 days before 9/11.

cntryby

cool, didn't know that was there!  ;D
Grey haired riders didn't get that way from pure luck.

Possum Creek

I wish I had a couple big loads of 12" sweet gum logs, they are my favorite to saw into ties. I sure would not burn them that would be like burning money.              PC

cntryby

I don't think I've burned any that size, may a few years ago before I got the mill, but I have taken down anything but little scrub stuff lately.
Grey haired riders didn't get that way from pure luck.

yarnammurt

Quote from: cntryby on December 27, 2014, 06:07:01 PM
I don't think I've burned any that size, may a few years ago before I got the mill, but I have taken down anything but little scrub stuff lately.


I am covered up with it. I have the 20-30" trees, I am cutting live edge slabs and mantels. Will be cutting barn wood next week. 
ATS 10" Peterson, 09 New Holland 4x4 TL90 with loader, 125hp White,2 2009 Kawasaki 610 mules,

cntryby

If I was to cut fence post for pressure treatment, what has to be done?

Turned down to remove sapwood?
Dried to a set moisture content?
Grey haired riders didn't get that way from pure luck.

Magicman

Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

cntryby

Grey haired riders didn't get that way from pure luck.

Magicman

Oh my, now I want to hear the answer too.   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

JB Griffin

2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

cntryby

Quote from: Magicman on December 28, 2014, 02:34:13 PM
Oh my, now I want to hear the answer too.   ;D

??? enlighten me.  ???
Grey haired riders didn't get that way from pure luck.

JB Griffin

OK, cntryby, pine or sweet gum left untreated in contact with the ground would be rotten in 6 mo. or less. In my neck of the woods that is. Treated pine does well around here but not economical, maybe not even possible on a small scale.
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

cntryby

Quote from: cntryby on December 28, 2014, 07:08:51 AM
If I was to cut fence post for pressure treatment, what has to be done?

Turned down to remove sapwood?
Dried to a set moisture content?

uhhh... yeah...

Did everybody miss this, or just the kid?

Grey haired riders didn't get that way from pure luck.

Magicman

No, I did not miss it, I just have no experience with having post pressure treated.  Thus my statement about wanting to hear the answers.  I want to learn too.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

cntryby

Quote from: Magicman on December 28, 2014, 09:29:45 PM
No, I did not miss it, I just have no experience with having post pressure treated.  Thus my statement about wanting to hear the answers.  I want to learn too.

With the, "Oh my" and the big smiley ( ;D), you either missed it or have some knowledge about it, but choose to sit back and see what others may say. With your years of experience I'm sure you have quite a bit of knowledge about it, whether you have personal experience with it or not. :D

So again... enlighten me? I would think that the majority of the sapwood should be peeled off to get the best post, but that would obviously not be the most profitable.

So folks will understand the angle of my questions, I have a little section of my property (approx 15 ac) that I'm clearing for pasture. It has a good bit a saw timber in loblolly and a good bit of sweetgum. There is quite a bunch of small pines & sweetgums that would probably make decent fence post, size wise. I found a couple of places not to far from me that do pressure treating. I'll have to wait till after the holidays to talk to anyone there. Depending on what they tell me I may be able to sell enough ties to pay for the treating of my post and if I'm lucky put a little in my pocket. I have the means to transport 10 tons at a time, and the equipment I need to do all the heavy lifting. I'm not looking to get into business, just want to use the timber on my place for my use... mostly. If I can make a few bucks on the side it won't hurt my feelings. I purchased the ezboardwalk 40 to get me going and get a kiln and some barns / shops up, but will be building a bigger mill as soon as the shops are up. I have the 28" wheels, the shafts, bearings and other misc. parts and most of the framing metal waiting to go. But it's gonna take me a while to get there. (to many dang projects.)



 
Grey haired riders didn't get that way from pure luck.

beenthere

There is a lot to treating that you will need to learn about.
Finding the treater's near you and talking to them about what they will treat and what they require from a supplier wanting treating done (volume, size, turned post, species, etc.) will give you most of your answers, I believe.

Only the sapwood of SYP treats with any degree of success, so the idea you posed of removing wood has its limitations. Initial size of post will likely be critical for your product.

Don't have a clue about sweetgum, but your nearby treater's will pass on that knowledge to you.

Good luck, and hope you feed back to us what you find out.

I thought I posted earlier on this thread, but didn't find it so must have been detracted. Probably something to do with eating.  ;D
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

JB Griffin

Just my 2cents, saw all 12"+ sweet gum into ties and 4/4" lumber, sell to tie yard and flooring mill or grade lumber broker, and buy fence posts.

2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

5quarter

cntryby...Doc Gene has posted a couple times about pressure treating, perhaps he'll spot your thread and chime in. another option might be to saw and sell the loblolly and sweetgum and buy yourself a load of white oak and make the posts from that.
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

cntryby

decent read here;
http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-2531/NREM-5047web%20color.pdf

and here;

http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/htmlpubs/htm06772809/page04.htm

In the "penetration and retention" section" it says;


Complete penetration of the sapwood should be the ideal in all pressure treatments. This penetration often can be accomplished in small-size timbers of various commercial woods. With skillful treatment, it may be obtained in pilings, ties, and structural timbers. However, the operator cannot always ensure complete penetration of sapwood in every large piece of round material with thick sapwood, such as poles and piles. Specifications permit some tolerance for less than complete penetration. Refer to the AWPA standards for required penetration and retention of various species and treatments.

So peel it and let the sapwood absorb the chemicals.

Grey haired riders didn't get that way from pure luck.

cntryby

Quote from: 5quarter on December 28, 2014, 11:37:50 PM
cntryby... another option might be to saw and sell the loblolly and sweetgum and buy yourself a load of white oak and make the posts from that.

The pine big enough for saw logs I'll use for barn lumber, the big sweetgums I will probably make some barn siding and depend on how much I have cut some ties.

The stuff I'm considering for post is 8" and down.
Grey haired riders didn't get that way from pure luck.

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