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Slabbing Bandmill ??'s and new member introduction

Started by MSWT, December 25, 2014, 08:59:16 PM

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MSWT

Hi gents, and first of all, Happy Holidays to everyone!

New member here, I split my time between AZ and MS/GA/NC, traveling and sourcing wood for customers. 

I'm starting this thread to share a project, and get some feedback for those that have done it on some home-made bandmilling equipment.  I've been in the lumber business now for 9 years, selling, milling, and brokering.  I've owned and sold both woodmizer mills and AK mills, the last one was a MS880 and 84" bar.  It cut well, but it was a brute to run, and SLOOOOOOOOOW. 

Anyway, I'm looking for some feedback from you guys/gals out there on a new project, which I am drawing up today/tomorrow/etc.  I need to build a dedicated bandsaw to slab big logs.  I don't need to mess with dimensional stock, or beams, or any of that.  I have a client base now that just needs live-edge, I take good care of them, they take care of me.  I'm done alaska milling, I need to go faster than they will work.  they also waste a hell of a lot of wood.  I hate to think about all the walnut sawdust I've made sometimes.....

I passed up the opportunity to have one built, as I have a lot of mechanical/welding/fab experience on my hands, and tools/equipment as well, and the builder's quality did not impress me at all.  I am trying to keep this build simple, rugged, and well, simple.  Have adequate budget, I'm sold on the idea of a 4-post head, a wide track (currently spec'd at 72" wide x 15' long), and 24-26" bandwheels.  It will be towable, heavily built, and designed to cut slabs, (8/4, 10/4, 12/4) from 25-60" logs, one at a time.  I've got a 7.3L dually to tow it. 

I have located a 25HP subaru engine that runs propane (not converted - those aren't great, just ask me how I know..) so I can use that as a fuel.  I'll suffice it to say I've owned and broken a lot of motors, and am sold fully on propane for industrial uses.  It's also, in my areas of operation, cheaper than gasoline or diesel. 

Burning questions: 

1) I really want to use a 1.75" wide timberwolf band, and rubber tires.  I got this idea from the "angry beaver" mill on lumberjocks - look it up, pretty cool machine, but way more complicated than I need.  Can the rubber tires produce enough tension on the blade to support a 60" cut, or do I need to buy a $1600 set of wheels and make a tensioner on this thing?

2) Has anyone found a 1.125" bore centrifugal clutch that can handle 25HP?  I think I found the end of the internet today, and haven't seen one...barring that, I guess an idler pulley and lever will get it done, one of my woodmizer electrics had that, and it was a simple, yet very effective solution. 

3) Who makes a short axle (20-24") that I can use to mount the drive/idler wheels/tires on this thing and rip up some logs? 

thanks in advance guys, there is an encyclopedic level of knowledge on this site, and I appreciate everyone's contributions. 

- DC

Den-Den

1)  I am using rubber tires but can only cut ~40"; it should work for wider cuts but might take fairly high pressure in the tires.  Consider using load range D tires.  You will still need a tension system with tires.

Towing this thing may be interesting; 60" cut, two tires @ 25 - 30" each and a guard will put the width over the legal limit without a permit for each trip (at least in my area).
You may think that you can or may think you can't; either way, you are right.

fishpharmer

Welcome to FF!  Sounds like you about got it figured out.  I had custom shaft made on my homemade mill.  Welded a hub to a round shaft and then had the face of the hub turned on a lathe to flatten and true it.  Personally I would recommend more horsepower and preferably a diesel if your going to slab many logs over 40".   Especially if time is an issue. 

What kind of support equipment do you have?  To move those monster logs around?
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

MSWT

Guys,

Feedback much appreciated. I'm figuring width of the head as max legal limit, 102", less a wheel diameter, and a few inches for saw guard.  I figure go big or go home....

About what PSI do you run in those tires?  I'm guessing the crown in them, combined with a guide wheel makes it pretty easy to true the blade or do you need fine tuning?

I'll look into more horsepower down the road, this machine is for slabbing like crazy for a few years and then re power. Right now it's not worth the $5k for a diesel.  With some luck maybe I can find a 30-35hp propane motor down the road.

If you have close up pics of your axle/bearing assemblies, it would be much appreciated!

mikeb1079

that's why you must play di drum...to blow the big guys mind!
homebuilt 16hp mill
99 wm superhydraulic w/42hp kubota

york

Albert

MSWT

Wow.  That is one hell of a mill!   I really like the design, being really robust and simple - I'll follow his lead! 

I've been at the drawing board most of the day, and mine will probably max out around 52" and will barely squeak by DOT regulations for towing. 

For now, the mobility is important, and if I get that big of a log, I guess I can break out the AK mill again...

I appreciate the link, its helpful, I'm trying to make the axle and drive clutch work now, I have the head and carriage all done - on paper that is...

The forklift will get a workout after this one gets running. 

Anyone who can comment on tire pressure, or axle assemblies will be most appreciated.  I'd like to power this with belt drive off the motor going to the rear of the axle carrying the drive wheel. 


MSWT

Also - is there a minimum tire size I can run?  Smaller diameter tires will give me more throat space, but I don't want to break a band with 25hp behind it.

I've found some that are about 24.5" with a 13" rim.  Could i drop down to 20-22"?

FarmingSawyer

To keep the width of the unit down for DOT reasons, could you put the wheels inside the frame--like a deck over trailer? You'll still need some strong jack-legs to hold this monster up and level while your milling........

I run a 25hp Honda gas engine on my mill......it rarely bogs down, but I can bring it to a stop if I'm not careful. Recently slabbing some 30" oak with a sharp band, it was crawling along........You should really think of upping the HP for wide cuts. Every time the RPM drops, the band becomes less stable and wants to wander......and as it slows it heats and the tension slips and it wants to wander...... On those wide cuts that band will want to enter the wood and exit the wood at the same rpm without a hiccup.
Thomas 8020, Stihl 039, Stihl 036, Homelite Super EZ, Case 385, Team of Drafts

MSWT

Well I'll start sniffing around for a bit bigger motor.  In the meantime, I am stuck on the bandwheel support mechanism.  I wanted to use rubber tires for ease of construction and cost.  I've heard from this post that you need a tensioner in addition to varying the pressure in the tires...How is this done? 

In this post: http://lumberjocks.com/projects/84032, there is a mill with about the same capacity I need, running rubber tires and no additional tensioner that I can see...

Anyone with a tire-based mill want to weigh in on this?  if you have both, why and how did you do it? 

I like their axle design enclosed by flange bearings - I think that is a no-brainer for me.  Now I just have to make the belt drive work, shouldn't be too hard. 

Cooks saw sells a 24" wheel set with bearings, but it's not cheap: http://store.cookssaw.com/sawmill-parts/band-wheels/25-all-metal-band-wheels/25-performance-band-wheel-package.html - ouch!

If that is the better way to go, so be it, but I'd rather do rubber tires and keep this one simple, unless they are a big power drain?

Cheers guys, and keep the advice coming!  I'm excited about getting this one off paper and into the welding shop!

york

Hi,think you should give more thought to using tires,trying to pull the band through that much log,will you be able to tension the band,up enough to do the task???
Albert

GAB

MSWT:
Sorry I do not have any answers for you but I do have some questions.
1.  If you were to mount the saw head at an angle with respect to the axis of the mill bed would that gain you anything?  May need to have a longer trailer.
2.  Is it possible to make the non-drive wheel adjustable so that the mill head is less than 102" for travel and when you are setting it up then put it on the operating position, tighten the band and have at it?
Gerald
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

Gasawyer

Welcome to the forum!  This is something that I have been considering building. The problem in my slabbing that I do in large logs is tramp metal. The chainsaw slabber I currently run is tolerant of some metal and still finish the cut. I wish you luck on your project and to seeing what you decide to build. Happy new years!
Woodmizer LT-40hdd super hyd.,Lucas 618,Lucas 823dsm,Alaskian chainsaw mill 6',many chainsaws large and small,NH L555 skidsteer, Int. TD-9,JD500 backhoe, and International grapple truck.

GAmillworker

Welcome to the FF

If you have the time to look around I would encourage you to look for an older band mill to modify.  they have most of the parts for a fraction of the cost.

This is what I built.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,67692.msg1014291.html#msg1014291

After 48" wide it is challenging even with 2" band on 30" wheels to keep enough tension on the band to cut straight.

My saw has a hydraulic tension-er that i max out at 3,000psi.

In a 60" cut with 30HP 480 three phase motor it is slow go to get a good straight cut.
Thank the Lord for second chances

Swatson

Here is my set up.  I only use tension and do not monkey with the tire pressure but I have plenty of adjustment to run a wide range of band length.





The tires help to even out the tension in the band as it warms up...but you are talking about a much different kind of cut.  That wide and the band is gonna heat up quite a bit even with lubrication.  I dont think the tires could make up for that much change.  I would use the hydraulic cylinder with a gauge, that can be adjusted with a hand pump if I were trying to make a cut like that.
I cant figure out which one I like better: working with wood or making the tools to work with wood.

StimW

You can buy stub axles with hubs at any good trailer supply.
I have replaced the stub axle on 3500 # axles and I know they make the stubs for 6000# too.
As for legal width you could put a boom pole at the front of the trailer and lift the head and turn it sideways and secure it for transportation.
New HF Band Mill
Branson 35 hp 4 WD Diesel Tractor W/Attachments- Backhoe, FEL W/ Bucket or Forks, 4' Tiller
4000# Clark Forklift W/24" Tires
Promark 6" Brush chipper W/18 hp Kohler

FarmingSawyer

Check out any of the videos on Cross Super Sawmill......he claims to have the world record holding biggest bandsaw.....erm....don't know, but it's impressive...... He doesn't seem to have blade guards, tensioner or anything and runs 2 different size bands depending on how wide he's cutting.....

http://youtu.be/AVJ1UarRhEU
Thomas 8020, Stihl 039, Stihl 036, Homelite Super EZ, Case 385, Team of Drafts

Swatson

Wow....I dont have words...Is that a whole forklift that makes up part of that?  And looks like a jeep fender...wow... :o ...I just dont have nothing to say... :o
I cant figure out which one I like better: working with wood or making the tools to work with wood.

york

Albert

FarmingSawyer

Quote from: york on December 26, 2014, 02:24:43 PM
Think,i would just go buy this here thing.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMHuKphn29U

A wondrous machine indeed, marred by complete lack of thought....... Once again a WM machine where the operator gets covered in sawdust.....and has to stand?? And the clamps and log turners chewed the log up....I wouldn't be happy with the aggressive bite they seem to show on a high dollar log with clear faces. And how about a slab unloading arm or something.....or a way of holding a quarter so you can put it back on to quarter saw......

I think for the same money you could probably import one of those slick portable German mills with the over-the-blade cab and complete automation......
Thomas 8020, Stihl 039, Stihl 036, Homelite Super EZ, Case 385, Team of Drafts

MSWT

Guys,

thank you all for the feedback!  Yes, I thought about a WM1000, but to set it up right is about $70K...kinda out of the budget right now. 

I'll look around for an old vert mill, or large bandsaw for the wheels, but as of right now, I'm leaning towards the following:

25HP propane - unless I can find a 30.

Rubber tires with screw-tension sliding mechanism, or ~$900 for cook's wheels...

1.5" wide blade - after talking with a few gray-hairs around mills, narrower bands take less energy and don't cup as bad, just require wedging the cut - easy enough.

Bearings, 1.5" shafts, and pulleys from www.thebigbearingstore.com

If possible, idler wheel will detach for transport. 

Towable behind my truck, cutting length to be around 14-15'. 

Up/down by crank. 

manual push.

MSWT

Re: slick german mill - I priced out the Afrika, will saw 64" or so, for $120K+taxes and shipping from germany...

out of my price range...

MSWT

One more question - can I use 19" wheels on a band that is 18'-ish long? 

Is there some type of formula for wheel size vs. width of cut/blade length?

If no one knows, where could I go to find some help?

Swatson

Diameter doesn't have anything to do with width of cut but it does with what thickness of a band you use.  I imagine for the length your looking for it would be a 0.050 and those require some larger diameters to keep from fatiguing metal.  I am not sure if 19 in would be the best for that.
I cant figure out which one I like better: working with wood or making the tools to work with wood.


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