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What is a reasonable # stickers in a day

Started by hunz, December 21, 2014, 11:56:33 AM

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hunz

So my brother is starting a tomato farming venture on our family farm in NC. Obstacle # 1 of many is the cost of a tomato stake. Currently one stake is bringing near $0.40. It looks like we will be need king close to 12,000 stakes. I plan to use red/white oak as they are available.
  I myself think this is something that could be accomplished in 5-6 days of sawing with 2 men and my lt-35. Is this reasonable? My brother has never been around a mill, and is so somewhat doubtful this could be economical. Anyone have any experience?

Logs are of no cost to us, just sweat equity in getting them on the ground and out of the woods.
Dream as if you'll saw forever; saw as if you'll die today.



2006 Woodmizer LT40D51RA, Husqvarna 372xp, Takeuchi TL140

xlogger

Timberking 2000, Turbo slabber Mill, 584 Case, Bobcat 773, solar kiln, Nyle L-53 DH kiln

hunz

Part of me thought that too. The average life of a tomato stake is about 4 years in a commercial operation. Do you think red oak would rot out after 4-5 seasons of being in the ground for say 5 months?
Dream as if you'll saw forever; saw as if you'll die today.



2006 Woodmizer LT40D51RA, Husqvarna 372xp, Takeuchi TL140

WH_Conley

You can't make a stake out of junk logs, they break at the knot. Fair White Oak as of here and now starts at $1.00 per foot and goes up. A stake will have about 1 board foot in it (depending on size). Down next to the heart will be too many knots, you will have to find something to use the low grade for.
Bill

warren46

I recently sawed 140 tomato stakes out of oak for $.50 each.  I came out ok but do the math.

A 2X2 tomato stake 5' long is 1.67 board feet (2X2/12X5).  1.67 X 12,000 is about 20,000 board feet.  That is over 3000 board feet a day for 6 days.  Considering you are sawing 2X2 I think you will be tired at the end of the week.
Warren E. Johnson
Timber Harvester 36HTE25, John Deere 300b backhoe/loader.

Dave Shepard

And that doesn't include cutting to length or pointing.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

hunz

The stakes will be 1"x1" and unpointed. My father is a commercial tomato grower in south FL, those dimensions are standard across high volume industry, so......do you think its worth it to saw them with the opportunity cost being say a week and a half of sawing? I have over 200 acres of prime hardwoods to choose from, so locating logs will be a non issue. Which one of you would do it to save $6000, or do you feel one's time could be better spent doing other things? It definitely won't be a cake walk falling and skidding 5,000ish bd/ft of oak.

  I just did the math, and with a 1"x1"x52" stake @12,000 pieces, we are talking 4,333 bd/ft.
Dream as if you'll saw forever; saw as if you'll die today.



2006 Woodmizer LT40D51RA, Husqvarna 372xp, Takeuchi TL140

69bronco

$6,000 for a week and a half sounds good to me! We spend a few months in the winter near a huge tomato farm, there stakes are all 1x1 or 3/4x3/4.

boscojmb

I make a fair amount of stakes for retail sale. The time consuming part is pointing, packaging, and handling the stakes. If you are just milling them and putting them in some type of bulk bins, 5 days sounds reasonable.
John B.

Log-Master LM4

POSTON WIDEHEAD

For 2 years I sawed and sold Tomato stacks......no more.

People will aggravate you to death wanting certain lengths and species. I got a snoot full of that quick......other fish to fry.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

thecfarm

If I was doing it for myself,I would try to saw them as long as I could.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Dave Shepard

I'd give it a go. That 4,333 feet of stakes is going to turn into 10,000 of logs that you bring home by the time it's over, unless you are using prime logs, and even then, it's going to be more than you think.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

WH_Conley

I know you said you did not have to pay for the logs, however when figuring the final payout you have to value the lumber. Clear White Oak, the kind you are going to need is bringing $1.30 a foot here at a local mill and they are reselling it. That is where I sell my grade lumber. That brings the value of the wood, after sawing into lumber to $5632.90. That leaves $367.10 for turning the limber into stakes.

    You will have to cut and skid closer to 10k of logs to get what you want, unless you are just going to take the butt logs and let the rest lay. You could sell the lower grade logs and offset some expense, or saw them into farm lumber, you will have lumber from the center of the logs left over anyhow.

I am not trying to talk you out of the job. If he is going to grow Tomatoes he will have to have stakes. Just trying to show all that is involved. The bottom line is not all profit.

My advise in the manufacturing would be to saw the lumber now and put on sticks to dry. Right before you need the stakes, cut to length and put back on the mill 6-8 boards at a time. The reason to dry first is to let the sap wood lose some moisture. A stick that has both sap and heart wood made into a stake while green will dry and bow to be just about unusable. Even with just a chainsaw for cut to length 2 people can do thousands a day, 3 people would be better.
Bill

SAnVA

I've never been one to pay someone else to do something I can do myself, especially if I don't have to spend any of my own money to do it, you have the mill, the logs, and the knowledge, all you need now is the time and your brothers help! I don't know your financial situation but $6000.00 is a lot of money in my neighborhood! Good luck!

Ohio_Bill

Sawing on a band mill you should have at least 40% over saw with good logs using the dole scale.  So IMHO 3000 bf of good logs should make it. If you could sell your logs for a dollar a foot that would be $3000.00 and the stakes would cost   .40x 12000 = $4800.00.    Sounds like a good way to save your brother some money.  Go for it.
Bill
USAF Veteran  C141 Loadmaster
LT 40 HDD42-RA   , Allis Chalmers I 500 Forklift , Allis Chalmers 840 Loader , International 4300 , Zetor 6245 Tractor – Loader ,Bob Cat 763 , Riehl Steel Edger

Peter Drouin

I make and sell them, All hard wood, At .50 each for a 4' one and sharpened.
I'm making 60 to $70.00 and hr.


  

 
With the 6' I do better.
Just use a hard wood don't have to use just oak the things warp and brake. You will be making some every year.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Jim_Rogers

One of my very first products when I started sawing with my own mill was stakes. We make them out of all kinds of hardwood, not only red and white oak.
Normally when cutting for some other market, I make regular hardwood boards 1 1/8" thick. I set these extra "jacket" boards aside for making stakes.
Then after they have set a while, I take the bundle of lumber and cut them to shorter lengths and restack on small pallets for easy moving.
Some of the boards have square edges on both sides, some on only one side, some are round edge on both sides.
I stack them up 5 or 6 side by side, on the mill, and again cut 1 1/8" pieces to make squares.

Anything that is bad from knots, splits or other defects is firewood. If it is 4' long and has a bad end, I cut them back to 3' for shorter stakes.

I even make 5' stakes, again saving rejects to be cut back to shorter lengths.
I have a Hud-Son stake pointer and it does a nice job putting a pencil style point on the stakes.
I bundle my stakes in lots of 25.

I have taken raw logs and cut them directly into stakes before, but not for many years as I have a fair inventory of left over lumber for stakes on hand at most times.

I have made bins that are pallet size with vertical side boards to hold the stakes. Both ends are open so I can toss the stakes in from the sawmill as I cut them. And reach into the bin as I point them. I built a jig on a saw horse to hold two bundles at a time side by side. So when I'm pointing I can point 50 and then shut down the gas engine on the pointer, strap them up and move them off the bundling jig to a storage pallet.

Good luck with your stake making project.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

hunz

Wow! Thanks for all of the replies guys. I am going to make a go at this and keep track of what my logs scale at, and what my yield is. I suppose the worst that can go wrong is that it turns out to be not quite the money saving deal I thought it was. I'll know next time to not fool with it, if my brother intends to plant more tomatoes next year.

I do know that I sure am optimistic about it; persistence always prevails!
Dream as if you'll saw forever; saw as if you'll die today.



2006 Woodmizer LT40D51RA, Husqvarna 372xp, Takeuchi TL140

backwoods sawyer

Even if the cost of the logs and sawing equal market price it was not out of pocket cash.
You will have cost associated with falling, handling logs, milling and processing stakes but if all goes smooth that could be pennies on the dollar.   
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

4x4American

Hey Jim, was that stake sharpner a good buy?

What do you use Peter?

OP- I'd go for it, if you possess the ability to do it, than go for it.  It could even help advertising for your brother, say that even the stakes used in your growing operation are sourced from family property, and sawed on a family member's mill.
Boy, back in my day..

scleigh

Not trying to be slanderous towards us who saw, but most big tomato farmers around here use the hollow fiberglass stakes. If you can still get them, they may be worth the extra money over time.

4x4American

Quote from: scleigh on December 21, 2014, 11:03:13 PM
Not trying to be slanderous towards us who saw, but most big tomato farmers around here use the hollow fiberglass stakes. If you can still get them, they may be worth the extra money over time.

Where they made, China?
Boy, back in my day..

4x4American

Quote from: Peter Drouin on December 21, 2014, 08:10:23 PM
I make and sell them, All hard wood, At .50 each for a 4' one and sharpened.
I'm making 60 to $70.00 and hr.


  

 
With the 6' I do better.
Just use a hard wood don't have to use just oak the things warp and brake. You will be making some every year.

Figured I'd step in and let you know:
"That stickering looks temporary at best"
-ROL
:D :D
Boy, back in my day..

Peter Drouin

A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Jeff

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

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