What is a reasonable # stickers in a day

[hunz]

So my brother is starting a tomato farming venture on our family farm in NC. Obstacle # 1 of many is the cost of a tomato stake. Currently one stake is bringing near $0.40. It looks like we will be need king close to 12,000 stakes. I plan to use red/white oak as they are available.
  I myself think this is something that could be accomplished in 5-6 days of sawing with 2 men and my lt-35. Is this reasonable? My brother has never been around a mill, and is so somewhat doubtful this could be economical. Anyone have any experience?

Logs are of no cost to us, just sweat equity in getting them on the ground and out of the woods.

[xlogger]

might want to stay with just white oak.

[hunz]

Part of me thought that too. The average life of a tomato stake is about 4 years in a commercial operation. Do you think red oak would rot out after 4-5 seasons of being in the ground for say 5 months?

[WH_Conley]

You can't make a stake out of junk logs, they break at the knot. Fair White Oak as of here and now starts at $1.00 per foot and goes up. A stake will have about 1 board foot in it (depending on size). Down next to the heart will be too many knots, you will have to find something to use the low grade for.

[warren46]

I recently sawed 140 tomato stakes out of oak for $.50 each.  I came out ok but do the math.

A 2X2 tomato stake 5' long is 1.67 board feet (2X2/12X5).  1.67 X 12,000 is about 20,000 board feet.  That is over 3000 board feet a day for 6 days.  Considering you are sawing 2X2 I think you will be tired at the end of the week.

[Dave Shepard]

And that doesn't include cutting to length or pointing.

[hunz]

The stakes will be 1"x1" and unpointed. My father is a commercial tomato grower in south FL, those dimensions are standard across high volume industry, so......do you think its worth it to saw them with the opportunity cost being say a week and a half of sawing? I have over 200 acres of prime hardwoods to choose from, so locating logs will be a non issue. Which one of you would do it to save $6000, or do you feel one's time could be better spent doing other things? It definitely won't be a cake walk falling and skidding 5,000ish bd/ft of oak.

  I just did the math, and with a 1"x1"x52" stake @12,000 pieces, we are talking 4,333 bd/ft.

[69bronco]

$6,000 for a week and a half sounds good to me! We spend a few months in the winter near a huge tomato farm, there stakes are all 1x1 or 3/4x3/4.

[boscojmb]

I make a fair amount of stakes for retail sale. The time consuming part is pointing, packaging, and handling the stakes. If you are just milling them and putting them in some type of bulk bins, 5 days sounds reasonable.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

For 2 years I sawed and sold Tomato stacks......no more.

People will aggravate you to death wanting certain lengths and species. I got a snoot full of that quick......other fish to fry.

[thecfarm]

If I was doing it for myself,I would try to saw them as long as I could.

[Dave Shepard]

I'd give it a go. That 4,333 feet of stakes is going to turn into 10,000 of logs that you bring home by the time it's over, unless you are using prime logs, and even then, it's going to be more than you think.

[WH_Conley]

I know you said you did not have to pay for the logs, however when figuring the final payout you have to value the lumber. Clear White Oak, the kind you are going to need is bringing $1.30 a foot here at a local mill and they are reselling it. That is where I sell my grade lumber. That brings the value of the wood, after sawing into lumber to $5632.90. That leaves $367.10 for turning the limber into stakes.

    You will have to cut and skid closer to 10k of logs to get what you want, unless you are just going to take the butt logs and let the rest lay. You could sell the lower grade logs and offset some expense, or saw them into farm lumber, you will have lumber from the center of the logs left over anyhow.

I am not trying to talk you out of the job. If he is going to grow Tomatoes he will have to have stakes. Just trying to show all that is involved. The bottom line is not all profit.

My advise in the manufacturing would be to saw the lumber now and put on sticks to dry. Right before you need the stakes, cut to length and put back on the mill 6-8 boards at a time. The reason to dry first is to let the sap wood lose some moisture. A stick that has both sap and heart wood made into a stake while green will dry and bow to be just about unusable. Even with just a chainsaw for cut to length 2 people can do thousands a day, 3 people would be better.

[SAnVA]

I've never been one to pay someone else to do something I can do myself, especially if I don't have to spend any of my own money to do it, you have the mill, the logs, and the knowledge, all you need now is the time and your brothers help! I don't know your financial situation but $6000.00 is a lot of money in my neighborhood! Good luck!

[Ohio_Bill]

Sawing on a band mill you should have at least 40% over saw with good logs using the dole scale.  So IMHO 3000 bf of good logs should make it. If you could sell your logs for a dollar a foot that would be $3000.00 and the stakes would cost   .40x 12000 = $4800.00.    Sounds like a good way to save your brother some money.  Go for it.

[Peter Drouin]

I make and sell them, All hard wood, At .50 each for a 4' one and sharpened.
I'm making 60 to $70.00 and hr.


  

 
With the 6' I do better.
Just use a hard wood don't have to use just oak the things warp and brake. You will be making some every year.

[Jim_Rogers]

One of my very first products when I started sawing with my own mill was stakes. We make them out of all kinds of hardwood, not only red and white oak.
Normally when cutting for some other market, I make regular hardwood boards 1 1/8" thick. I set these extra "jacket" boards aside for making stakes.
Then after they have set a while, I take the bundle of lumber and cut them to shorter lengths and restack on small pallets for easy moving.
Some of the boards have square edges on both sides, some on only one side, some are round edge on both sides.
I stack them up 5 or 6 side by side, on the mill, and again cut 1 1/8" pieces to make squares.

Anything that is bad from knots, splits or other defects is firewood. If it is 4' long and has a bad end, I cut them back to 3' for shorter stakes.

I even make 5' stakes, again saving rejects to be cut back to shorter lengths.
I have a Hud-Son stake pointer and it does a nice job putting a pencil style point on the stakes.
I bundle my stakes in lots of 25.

I have taken raw logs and cut them directly into stakes before, but not for many years as I have a fair inventory of left over lumber for stakes on hand at most times.

I have made bins that are pallet size with vertical side boards to hold the stakes. Both ends are open so I can toss the stakes in from the sawmill as I cut them. And reach into the bin as I point them. I built a jig on a saw horse to hold two bundles at a time side by side. So when I'm pointing I can point 50 and then shut down the gas engine on the pointer, strap them up and move them off the bundling jig to a storage pallet.

Good luck with your stake making project.

Jim Rogers

[hunz]

Wow! Thanks for all of the replies guys. I am going to make a go at this and keep track of what my logs scale at, and what my yield is. I suppose the worst that can go wrong is that it turns out to be not quite the money saving deal I thought it was. I'll know next time to not fool with it, if my brother intends to plant more tomatoes next year.

I do know that I sure am optimistic about it; persistence always prevails!

[backwoods sawyer]

Even if the cost of the logs and sawing equal market price it was not out of pocket cash.
You will have cost associated with falling, handling logs, milling and processing stakes but if all goes smooth that could be pennies on the dollar.   

[4x4American]

Hey Jim, was that stake sharpner a good buy?

What do you use Peter?

OP- I'd go for it, if you possess the ability to do it, than go for it.  It could even help advertising for your brother, say that even the stakes used in your growing operation are sourced from family property, and sawed on a family member's mill.

[scleigh]

Not trying to be slanderous towards us who saw, but most big tomato farmers around here use the hollow fiberglass stakes. If you can still get them, they may be worth the extra money over time.

[4x4American]

Not trying to be slanderous towards us who saw, but most big tomato farmers around here use the hollow fiberglass stakes. If you can still get them, they may be worth the extra money over time.

Where they made, China?

[4x4American]

I make and sell them, All hard wood, At .50 each for a 4' one and sharpened.
I'm making 60 to $70.00 and hr.


  

 
With the 6' I do better.
Just use a hard wood don't have to use just oak the things warp and brake. You will be making some every year.

Figured I'd step in and let you know:
"That stickering looks temporary at best"
-ROL
:D :D

[Peter Drouin]

 

 

[Jeff]

This should answer all your questions on tomato stake production.
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,24747.0.html

[Jim_Rogers]

Hey Jim, was that stake sharpener a good buy?

I think so, I've had it for many years, on the second engine now. First one blew up unexpectedly one day.

What's nice about it is that you can do stakes up to 2" square. I got it after I got a second customer who wanted 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 x 8' tree stakes. These are stakes for hold freshly planted new tree saplings until the roots take hold.

Works great on all sizes of stock:



 

Here is a picture of the tree stakes on my trailer on the way to a delivery.



 



 

I used to cut the ends with a chop saw but when I changed to a round pointer machine the time to produce stakes went way down per bundle.

Jim Rogers

[Dave Shepard]

I've used an electric version of that machine. If you have a bin with blanks on one side, and another bin you can toss the finished stake into, it averages out to a stake every 7 seconds.

[loggah]

Well i got a sawmill, and i got standing hardwood, But i dont saw any tomato stakes! ;D My wife usually plants around 100 tomato plants each year, and for tomato stakes we use re-bar !!!!! ;D It comes into the scrapyard pretty regular brand new cut off pieces 4' and 5' long ,with the ripples on it it holds the string in place ,you can use it for ever and it never rots. The best thing is if you dont want it any more you can sell it back to the scrapyard. ;D

[Holmes]

That is a good way to add iron to the tomatoes.  :D

[4x4American]

Thanks for the input.  I bet it goes 3x as fast as chopsaw!  What's your favorite stake wood?

[WV Sawmiller]

Hunz,

    I can see where this would be good use for scrap wood I have been throwing away but that looks awful time consuming. I haven't sawed any yet but would think I'd be sawing them twice the length then cut in half (8 ft logs then cut stakes in half for 2- 4' stakes, 10' longs then cut stakes in half for 2- 5's) and I am sure the round points work good but why not just cut in half at sharp angle to make your point?

    I had to make a tire comb (tire buster) for security on our gate overseas once and the contractor was trying to sharpen each point and I showed him just cut the rebar used for the spikes at a 45 degree angle then weld to the main bar. That worked fine puncturing tires when tested. I don't see why wouldn't drive up okay.

     Good luck on your project.