Temp at register

[upsnake]

What should the temp be at the register?
I have an e classic 1400 with a taco 007.
In the house I have a water to air  hx, in the plenum, the furnace has a half horse blower motor for the squirrel cage fan.

I have one inch thermoplex the boiler is about 100 feet from the house. It comes in goes through a plate hx for the domestic water then the water to air, then on the return loop it tees goes into the garage about a 9 foot vertical rise, goes through a smaller 90k btu water to air hx for the garage heat, back down the 9 feet into the return line and back to the boiler.

It seems like the blower motor run a long time. The house will stay at temp, there is no problems there, but to increase the temp takes a long time.
The house is 2k feet above ground 1k below.

I don't remember the exact temp for the registers on the OWB of the top of my head I will go measure it in a little bit, but i know it is cooler than the furnace running on gas.

Just wonder what temps other ppl are getting or what I should be expecting.

Thanks

[Holmes]

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,79863.0.html
Did you see this thread.  Your circ. could be to small for your set up.  You may need a 009 or 0011 to get the btu's you require from the boiler to the house.  The 007 may be pumping 3 to 4 gpm or 30 to 40 m btu's but you may need 7 to 8 gpm to warm the house .

[upsnake]

Thanks Holmes,

Just read through that one and yes I would say my pump is under powered.
Holy smokes though on the power usage from a 007 to 009 or 011.
.7 amps 1.4 and 1.65.
over double the power usage on a pump running 24 /7. haha

[Ivan49]

 I have the same problem. When mine was put in they put an 007 pump on it and it did OK until in got below -20. A short while back I had to replace the pump and now it keeps the house warm but the furnace seems to run a long time. I have 50 foot of 1 inch pump to the water heater and then the furnace. The pump has to raise the water in the pipe about 10 foot to go thru the garage. Should I have gotten and 009 pump? What is the max distance thru 1 nch pipe that you can run using a 007 pump?

[Holmes]

There are other style circulaters now.  Taco Viridian?  runs on delta T "I think" slows down automatically when little demand speeds up uses more amps when demand is higher.  I will have to look into this type myself I have not used it yet.

[Holmes]

The 007 only goes up to 7' head. 100' of pex is about 6.5' head then you add heat,x fittings,, you are maxed out.  Also available is the 3 speed 0010, replaces 005,007,008,maybe 009.  and the 0015 that replaces 0011 and up.They cost more. 3speed gives you the option to run slow in mild weather and manually turn it up in cold weather.

[upsnake]

Wow that looks like an impressive pump, but probably way too advanced for myself.

I was looking at this one, it is a 3 speed, but yikes that is an expensive pump, not sure I would ever make up the electricty cost. haha

https://ca.grundfos.com/content/dam/GCA/Data%20Sheets/Small%20UP/UP_26-99_F_BFC_0311.pdf

[upsnake]

The other thing I could do is go with an 011 and then in the summer put it on a timer that turns it off all night long.
Plate Hx doesn't need water circulating through out the night. They would cut some hours of run time.

Still trying to find the price of a 010.
Never mind 450 dollars at grainger.

Thanks for you help everybody.

Could I back into my current head pressure by opening at drain half at the halfway point, for like 15 seconds, see how many gpm it pumped, then divide that in half and compare it to the pump flow chart?

K one last question. Can you push too much gpm through the system? Say with the 11, and you have about 14 ft of head,  you are at 20 gpm.

I think the 015 is looking the best,
http://www.pexuniverse.com/taco-0015-msf2-ifc-circulator-pump
Doesn't appear to be that expensive,
and assuming 14 ft, on high is 8 gpm, (a little short of the 10 goal), in the summer I can turn bypass the garage and the house furnace. So i would just have 180 feet 1 inch pex round trip and a plate hx. So i think that should be me around 10 ft of head, or 5gpm which if that is all i have going through there right now it i heating the water fine.

K my head in spinning now  ???

[Firewoodjoe]

Mine is about a 100' from the house and I have a $120 gulds three speed pump and my register is about 114 when at its peak. Stove is 170 at peak. And I'm only running heat no water heater yet. My propan furnace runs about 124 at register. Just for an idea. That's why I checked😋

[upsnake]

Oh yea i forgot about water temp of stove.
I run my stove at the CB recommended 175 to 185.
The air at the register, (in the basement about 10 feet from the furnace is about 102) on propane it is 120 ish.
Those temps are assuming that currently not using domestic water.
That is plumbed first and takes a pretty good hit out of the stove water temp.

[Holmes]

That 0015 looks like a good way to go.

[thecfarm]

I have no idea about what size to get. I had my installed by someone that I thought knew about the pumps. He put in two 013,which I guess was too big. I went through at least 2 before I called him and really asked,what is going on? I returned each to the dealer,thinking something was wrong with the pumps. So no cost to me.The guy that installed the system refunded my money for both 013 and suggested 007,which are working fine. He thought the water was being pushed too fast and when the water returned it was moving the fins faster than what they was designed for. All I know I am nice and warm,all the time. I am only about 40 feet from the house.

[upsnake]

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pump-head-pressure-d_663.html

I have several boiler drains in the system.
I could put a psi gauge on the draing and see what PSi is inside the pipe.
Would it matter where where  in the system or is psi constant in the pipe?

[r.man]

If my furnace is up to temp, say 170, my air is about 106 F to 110 F and my house is good. Heating the hot water doesn't make any difference on mine, it takes very little away. I have 70 ft of lines, 1/3 hp fan and the smallest of the circ pumps, probably a 007 since it draws .6 amps.

[upsnake]

I think it was adding garage heater that did me in.  Another 20 feet of pex, another hx, and a 10 foot vertical climb. 

[Holmes]

 Just so it is known.  The 10' of up is canceled out by the 10' of down, [what goes up must come down]{old saying} but the 20' of pipe is additional head.

[ohiowoodchuck]

I'm seeing 128-132 coming out of the registers. I'm 30ft from the house and another 30ft to the exchanger. I checked it with my fluke with a temp probe.

[Gearbox]

I tried a 007 and I had 5 ft rise and I couldn't even get it to start the flow and that was on a 30 ft run . Went to a 011 and no more problems . If your water runs to slow you have way to much heat loss per pass . I was thinking from outlet of pump to return should only be 2 or 3 degrees . Gearbox

[upsnake]

I went out and checked and I actually have the 009, so based on that pump curve I have about 6-8 gpm pretty anywhere on the curve.

I am still trying to locate a low pressure 1/4 inch threaded pressure gauge to try to calc the head pressure.

[Holmes]

Velocity head pressure is the amount of restriction [friction] the circulator can overcome to deliver gallons per minute of flow.  It is not a PSI number.  Height usually does not figure into the formula. Total length and size, [diameter] of pipe and fittings  and other obstructions gives head [resistance] pressure. 

[Gearbox]

Head figures in when you try to start a radiator  that is higher than the boiler and empty and trying to push the air out . Gearbox

[garret]

I'm running the 3-speed Grundfos UPS-26-99FC.  It moves the water along well enough for my 120' run of 1" thermopex on low speed until it gets colder, then its speed 2.  Haven't had a need for highest speed yet.  The best advice is to keep the distance from house to OWB as short as practicable.  You simply cannot move the rated output BTUs easily (or without additional energy costs) through 1" that distance even at 195 F, or unless you have a small, well insulated home.  Another option is 1 1/4 " pipe.  To date I love everything about my furnace (E-Classic 2400) and the pumping distance is my only huge regret, as I could have easily put the furnace closer to the house.  I will be installing the 1 1/4" thermopex come spring over top of the 1".  May it rest in pieces.  I find all this especially important now that I am attempting to run EC-2400 and up to 3 pumps with a solar array.  The EC-2400 is especially hungry for power because of the additional loads of fan and solenoids.  Important to keep inside my energy budget.  My 2.5 KV system cannot keep up with current demands (pun intended) as wintertime sunlight is in short supply.