Taking the set out

FarmingSawyer · December 14, 2014, 06:24:39 AM

Any ideas here on taking the set out of a band?.....other than clipping a back stop!!

I've got some bands which I've hit metal with and now have 5 or 6 over set teeth, and a couple of bands which are set to .030 for some reason. I'd like to knock the set right out and start over to make some .015-.019's for frozen lumber.

I suppose I could hammer the band lightly at the teeth on a "anvil"--I'd have to use a wedge stuck in a firewood block. But I'm thinking of some sort of roller. I used to have a corn cracker with hardened rollers which might work perfect if I hadn't have lost it in a move.....Put it in and roll the thing through backwards......

Picking the bands would probably matter too. I don't think I'd try it with any of my WM double hards or a Cook's SS. But a Timberwolf is soft enough I think it would be fine.

bandmiller2 · December 14, 2014, 07:31:47 AM

Sawyer, for a few overset teeth just get a small "crescent wrench" and bend them back, it takes very little force. With a little experience it will be fast and quite accurate. Frank C.

kelLOGg · December 14, 2014, 07:55:40 AM

Someone else on the FF gave me this idea which I copied. Can't find whose idea it was but it is an easily made tool. The slots slip over the tooth and just bent it back. Use it like a dedicated crescent wrench like Frank suggested.
Bob

Chuck White · December 14, 2014, 08:27:13 AM

I've used the ideas Frank & Bob mentioned, work great.

I made one similar to Bobs out of a piece of flat steel 3/16" x 1" about 5 inches long.
Just cut the corners off so the one end was only about 1/4" across, then took the hacksaw and cut a groove in the small end, deep enough to go down over about half the height of the tooth.

Just slip it down over the tooth and bend it however you desire!

slider · December 14, 2014, 08:42:11 AM

Your catclaw will take set out just as easy as putting it in.Just do it with one anvil at a time.Back out on one anvil and use the other to remove the set on that row of teeth.Then reverse the process for the other side.

bandmiller2 · December 14, 2014, 09:07:48 AM

Dual tooth setters work with three teeth at a time and advance three each time you work the feed. Theirs a right, left and straight tooth. To unset, adjust the anvils less, and change the feed so the opposite anvil pushes the tooth the wrong way. Frank C.

Cedarman · December 14, 2014, 11:43:34 AM

For individual teeth, I use a regular pliers. Small crescent wrench works well too.
I have a 3/8" x 2" x 14" bar that has 2 holes drilled near one end for 2 bolts. one bolt has 2 bearings stacked, an adjacent bolt has 3 bearings stacked. The bolt holes are a little bigger than the bolt to allow for some adjustment. I adjust the bearings so that a blade will fit tight between the bearings. The bearings are thick enough that the 3d bearing can push the tooth tip over as the blade is pulled through the gizmo. Takes less than a minute to reduce the set on one side. And another minute to reduce the set on the other side.
I think WM sells the tool.

backwoods sawyer · December 14, 2014, 12:22:51 PM

The cooks duel tooth setter has room to add a third clamping mechinisom on the feed side that could be used to pre set the teeth to a lower set then what the anvil is setting to.

When down setting an over set saw the cresent wrench is a slow process but works.

Cedarman do you have a pic?
That could well be the tool we all should have in the sharpening room.

FarmingSawyer · December 14, 2014, 02:17:12 PM

Quote from: Cedarman on December 14, 2014, 11:43:34 AM
For individual teeth, I use a regular pliers. Small crescent wrench works well too.
I have a 3/8" x 2" x 14" bar that has 2 holes drilled near one end for 2 bolts. one bolt has 2 bearings stacked, an adjacent bolt has 3 bearings stacked. The bolt holes are a little bigger than the bolt to allow for some adjustment. I adjust the bearings so that a blade will fit tight between the bearings. The bearings are thick enough that the 3d bearing can push the tooth tip over as the blade is pulled through the gizmo. Takes less than a minute to reduce the set on one side. And another minute to reduce the set on the other side.
I think WM sells the tool.

This sounds like the tool I'm envisioning in my head....... I know the wrench trick...I use a pair of small vise grips I always have on me....but it is slow, if you want to de-set a whole band. And as I have a single tooth setter, the other way is pretty slow too..... I guess a fella could put the teeth below the anvil and use the clamp on the setter to knock all the teeth to 0, but that is too much adjusting.

Cedarman's tool sounds like the ticket to do it quick and painless. And it sounds cheap enough to build.....

bandmiller2 · December 14, 2014, 08:33:05 PM

The only time I've had to reduce set is because of hitting tramp metal or mill parts. Remember the teeth will only take so much bending before they part company with the body. If teeth are really bent over from hitting metal chances are they will break if moved around much. Frank C.

backwoods sawyer · December 14, 2014, 09:15:30 PM

You also have to keep in mind that when down setting you do not have to go to 0 just below what you will be setting to.

Cedarman · December 15, 2014, 08:48:56 AM

Here is a picture of the too that I have used for many many years.

Cedarman · December 15, 2014, 08:51:52 AM

I clamp the tool in a vise to make it easy to pull/push the blade through the tool.
You want to bearings adjusted as close as possible to make a tight fit for the blade. It takes a little work to get it right. But doesn't normally need more adjustment unless you change blade thickness.

FarmingSawyer · December 15, 2014, 05:48:11 PM

Quote from: Cedarman on December 15, 2014, 08:48:56 AM
Here is a picture of the too that I have used for many many years.

Thanks for the photo! I like the offset..... I am definitely making one of these asap! 8)

terrifictimbersllc · December 16, 2014, 05:49:42 AM

Quote from: Cedarman on December 14, 2014, 11:43:34 AM
For individual teeth, I use a regular pliers. Small crescent wrench works well too.
I have a 3/8" x 2" x 14" bar that has 2 holes drilled near one end for 2 bolts. one bolt has 2 bearings stacked, an adjacent bolt has 3 bearings stacked. The bolt holes are a little bigger than the bolt to allow for some adjustment. I adjust the bearings so that a blade will fit tight between the bearings. The bearings are thick enough that the 3d bearing can push the tooth tip over as the blade is pulled through the gizmo. Takes less than a minute to reduce the set on one side. And another minute to reduce the set on the other side.
I think WM sells the tool.

Did you try to use 3 bearings on each side, to do both sides at once?

Cedarman · December 16, 2014, 06:55:02 AM

I think this is the way WM designed the tool. Wonder how well it would work if there were 3 bearings on both sides?

prittgers · December 16, 2014, 08:12:02 PM

Nice little tool that I made from cam follower bearings. Put it in a vise or clamp it to a table and it works VERY nicely!

Peter Drouin · December 16, 2014, 09:13:13 PM

I like that.

FarmingSawyer · December 17, 2014, 05:26:13 AM

I like this one even better! Fewer bearings...... Pull the band backwards through it and it should do the trick nicely. I think if the bearings were set a a hair wider than a band width apart it would knock the set back slicky. I just pulled my very 1st mesharp band off the mill early because I had a few overset teeth that were leaving too deep a mark for customer's lumber. They were fine for run of the mill stuff, but would require 2 extra passes with a small planer to remove, so a no-go for hobbyists.

The band had plenty of life still and was cutting frozen cedar very well.... Not bad for a twisted band missing 3 teeth from a metal strike which the sharpening service I had been using told me to throw in the scrap bin. Couldn't do it....it WAS a new blade before taking out a lag bolt.....

As an added benefit, I think Prittgers tool there might help deburr a band which was sharpened before setting.......

JB Griffin · December 19, 2014, 08:06:36 PM

Cooks sells a hand crank band roller that would do just that. Can't remember how much.
It would de-set and flatten your blades at the same time.

bandmiller2 · December 19, 2014, 08:36:01 PM

Sawyer, remember those DanG teeth are like spring steel and trial and error will be the only way to set the gap. Cam followers is a good idea especially if one side was adjustable. Frank C.

petefrom bearswamp · December 20, 2014, 09:41:36 AM

My neighbor and i share one of the WM tools, works really well

terrifictimbersllc · January 03, 2015, 06:06:04 PM

Made this today, after trying some other things that didn't work. Copied after Peter Drouin's above. It takes the set out quite nicely. More go-rounds take out more set. 30 thousandths went to 23 thousandths in one pass. Metal would be better than wood but this is what I had and I wouldn't have been able to drill 7/8" holes in steel.

From top to bottom, old Woodmizer blade guide arm cam bolts which are 5/8-fine thread. 5/8" thick oak board with two holes 7/8" diameter, 1-3/4" apart. Washer. Used WM guide arm roller and power feed shaft bearings. 5/8" fine thread nut. The cam action of the bolt is nice to adjust the tightness between the bearings. Clamp vertically in vise and pull blade through. Do one side only, whichever side got too much set.

Chuck White · January 03, 2015, 07:34:27 PM

Why not make both sides the same height and do both sides at once?

terrifictimbersllc · January 03, 2015, 08:23:11 PM

Maybe I will. I have another bearing and I could just put it on. Perhaps if I had several bands needing set reduced on both sides. But as I was thinking about it, I decided to leave it so I could roll out one side at a time as needed. The first band I needed to fix happened was a 4 degree band on the setter that had 28 thousandths on one side and 19-22 on the other. It just needed one side rolled out. It's very easy to just flip the band inside out and reduce the set on the other side. When I make a mistake on the setter it is often only on one side not both.

kelLOGg · January 15, 2020, 08:37:52 AM

For those with a single tooth CatsClaw setter (and others, too, perhaps) I did this to reduce a 0.025" set so I could reset to 0.020: I removed the spring-loaded band height adjustment screws so the band would rest on the base of the setter. I actuated the handle a couple of times resetting 4 to 5 teeth at a time and advanced the blade. The set changed to 0.015 (too much) but it was my first time so next time I won't be as aggressive. Pretty simple. I wish I had thought of it 17 years ago.

Chuck White · January 15, 2020, 12:17:00 PM

I had this made a few years ago, and it works fast and easy to make your set uniform!

Just put the blade in between and pull the blade backwards through the rollers!

I usually set my blades .025-.028, and when they get dull, I clean them, then run them through the rollers and they (the way the rollers are set now) get set back to .020-.022!

Speeds things up when I go to set the blades because now the blade will be a uniform set to start with!

KenMac · January 15, 2020, 12:52:29 PM

Quote from: JB Griffin on December 19, 2014, 08:06:36 PM
Cooks sells a hand crank band roller that would do just that. Can't remember how much.
It would de-set and flatten your blades at the same time.

I was told by Robert at Cook's that I bought the last band roller they were going to sell. It was costing them by not selling as many bands. It's not designed to deset bands, but I guess it would if adjusted for that.

kelLOGg · January 15, 2020, 03:32:46 PM

Quote from: Chuck White on January 15, 2020, 12:17:00 PM
I had this made a few years ago, and it works fast and easy to make your set uniform!

Just put the blade in between and pull the blade backwards through the rollers!

I usually set my blades .025-.028, and when they get dull, I clean them, then run them through the rollers and they (the way the rollers are set now) get set back to .020-.022!

Speeds things up when I go to set the blades because now the blade will be a uniform set to start with!

I remembered your rollers, Chuck. I just didn't have the rollers and the setter is at hand and took 1 minute to set up. Granted it is not as precise as yours.

Ljohnsaw · January 15, 2020, 04:33:22 PM

I think it was Chuck's post that inspired me to make my de-setter. I had my timing belt changed on my Tundra and requested the old parts. So I got two flat rollers and a nice little pivot arm. A piece of 3/8" steel plate, had to drill one big hole and one small, IIRC. A couple washers under the top roller to even it up with the adjustable. Usually one pass does it.