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Buying a mill. Looking at brands.

Started by labradorguy, December 08, 2014, 12:29:36 PM

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labradorguy

"In the South East, equipment buyers and owners do not compare their equipment to Caterpillar.
Even Caterpillar owners compare their equipment to JOHN DEERE."

I'm going to like this forum. There are some really funny guys on here...  ;D

It's filling time for me, but it's a mill that will get run daily. I didn't mention that I have a deadbeat brother to support and he has four kids that I need to make sure and get fed every day.... I've got an open-ended 70x100 pole barn I am planning on setting it up under for most of the year. That should help the electronics out. Wiring doesn't like the elements no matter who makes it.

As far as that cantilever head, I had figured it was something along those lines. They simply can't continue to sell that many mills if the design is as bad as some of their competition says. W-M is going to a hydraulic feed on the LT70.

Question: Are there any mill companies I have overlooked that should be considered? I was thinking I had reviewed the major players.

backwoods sawyer

The four post verses cantalever debate in the portable mills is like the over head carrage verses the old circle saw style carrage among the production mills (I prefer the over head carriage for speed of transfer ;D)

My first choice was and is the LT-70, I drove clean across the country to buy it, the Cooks AC-36 came along later as a good buy.

The cooks mill is a very solid machine, WM is more portable, Cooks the guide arm is a bit over kill but the guide motor on the WM is a bit light duty. Cooks uses a lot of long hydraulic hoses they are not cheep, WM uses a plastic hydraulic hose, I changed all them over to standard braded hoses after a fire in the hydralic box, (over zelist customer welding on mill after hours :-\)

Baker done a demo at the local logging conference and is considerably more mill then the Cooks and the Cooks is a very capable mill.

I found the big advantages to the WM is log handling abilities, its portability and its ability to saw over sized logs, Cooks states 36" and mean it, WM states 36" and with the single post you can fudge it a bit to about a 42" log.

Take a look at the LT-50 it uses the same chain turner as the LT-70, the curve design handles the logs better then the straight design of the Cooks.

With the WM I do all the edging on the mill, the Cooks clamps from the oposite side and edging is much easier with the edger. The advantage to clamping this way is the log rotates the oposite direction presenting the saw with a sawn face after making the opening cut. The WM debarker clears a narrow path for the saw
to cut in. Cooks uses a deisle drip with larger steel wheel, a good comination, I added a deisle drip to the WM.
Maintenace cost on the WM are higher than on the Cooks but down time is far less, Cooks can take a couple weeks or you can find parts on the open market but tracking down parts takes time, WM is next day in most cases, if ordering out of indy in a winter storm it can take week.

Not fond of the negitivity on the TK web site either :o ??? but that is their choice to turn customers away at their door.

You are on the right track of sorting it out, hands on is the best way to see what you are looking for in a mill. Take a good look at that Baker mill.

Other mills to take a look at would be the deisle Warrior mill, Norwood, Mighty mites band and circle mills, the Moble dimention mills.


Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

Magicman

Spoken from a sawyer that owns both an LT70 and a Cooks AC-36.  He also has several years sawing in a commercial sawmill under his belt.  Good write up backwoods sawyer.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

slider

Welcome Labradorguy looks like you are doing your homework.Someone should have warned you about POSTON.He can be the boogie man from time to time.
al glenn

Hale87

I don't think I've ever heard for sure, but I'm guessin the lt40hd is the number 1 saw purchased in the US? After hanging around here for a few years and reading a lot more than I wrote, I went form a Hudson to that mill also. I was quite happy with my Hudson, but this WM is light years ahead. Doesn't take much reading on here to figure out why that mill is probably the number one mill.
2002 LT40HD sawmill, WM single blade edger, 23hp Kubota tractor, 2011 Kawasaki Mule, 2002 Honda Foreman, 1983 Case 480D backhoe

labradorguy

Quote from: backwoods sawyer on December 09, 2014, 01:13:56 AM
The four post verses cantalever debate in the portable mills is like the over head carrage verses the old circle saw style carrage among the production mills (I prefer the over head carriage for speed of transfer ;D)

My first choice was and is the LT-70, I drove clean across the country to buy it, the Cooks AC-36 came along later as a good buy.

The cooks mill is a very solid machine, WM is more portable, Cooks the guide arm is a bit over kill but the guide motor on the WM is a bit light duty. Cooks uses a lot of long hydraulic hoses they are not cheep, WM uses a plastic hydraulic hose, I changed all them over to standard braded hoses after a fire in the hydralic box, (over zelist customer welding on mill after hours :-\)

Baker done a demo at the local logging conference and is considerably more mill then the Cooks and the Cooks is a very capable mill.

I found the big advantages to the WM is log handling abilities, its portability and its ability to saw over sized logs, Cooks states 36" and mean it, WM states 36" and with the single post you can fudge it a bit to about a 42" log.

Take a look at the LT-50 it uses the same chain turner as the LT-70, the curve design handles the logs better then the straight design of the Cooks.

With the WM I do all the edging on the mill, the Cooks clamps from the oposite side and edging is much easier with the edger. The advantage to clamping this way is the log rotates the oposite direction presenting the saw with a sawn face after making the opening cut. The WM debarker clears a narrow path for the saw
to cut in. Cooks uses a deisle drip with larger steel wheel, a good comination, I added a deisle drip to the WM.
Maintenace cost on the WM are higher than on the Cooks but down time is far less, Cooks can take a couple weeks or you can find parts on the open market but tracking down parts takes time, WM is next day in most cases, if ordering out of indy in a winter storm it can take week.

Not fond of the negitivity on the TK web site either :o ??? but that is their choice to turn customers away at their door.

You are on the right track of sorting it out, hands on is the best way to see what you are looking for in a mill. Take a good look at that Baker mill.

Other mills to take a look at would be the deisle Warrior mill, Mighty mites band and circle mills, the Moble dimention mills.

This is EXACTLY the type of information I was hoping to find here. Thank you very much for taking the time to reply to my questions gentlemen.

Regarding John Deere.... I'm used to that. :) I was once at a trade show in Louisville and accidentally walking into an elevator full of JD reps. There's me in Cat yellow surrounded by 9 guys in green. The first thing they said was "Git him!" LOL

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: labradorguy on December 09, 2014, 08:38:36 AM


Regarding John Deere.... I'm used to that. :D I was once at a trade show in Louisville and accidentally walking into an elevator full of JD reps. There's me in Cat yellow surrounded by 9 guys in green. The first thing they said was "Git him!" LOL

Thats funny.  :D
I run a Caterpillar to fight forest fires.....the draw back is not Caterpillar but the EPA junk they have to put on it and other brands too because of our Gov. We took all that stuff off and the power was increase tremendously.
And John Deer? I don't even own one. New Holland and Kabotas.  ;D
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

labradorguy

I have a 299D XHP and I would love to rip all of that garbage off of there.... but I'm scared to. I'm afraid it won't run or the NSA will come get me.

We have to make sure that China has clean air to breathe.

dboyt

Welcome to the  forum!  Not on your list, but if you'd like to get in a little time on a Norwood HD36 (manual-- but hydraulics are optional), you're welcome to visit.  I'm located about 8 miles southeast of Neosho, MO.
Norwood MX34 Pro portable sawmill, 8N Ford, Lewis Winch

Jim_Wahl

I recently found a good deal on a used Baker 3667D, and am still pinching myself to see if it is just a dream! It is more mill than I ever thought I'd have the good fortune to own. It is going to be fun trying to wear it out. Oh yeah, it has a John Deere engine, too. They put Cummins engines in them now, probably because iron wears better than solid gold.
1997 Peterson 9" WPF since 1998
2004 Baker 3667D since 2014
Cooks Catclaw sharpener and setter



I am from Iowa, but I seem fine.

Slingshot

   Speaking of cantilever designs, I like to think of the aircraft industry.
Cantilever seems to work fine when the internal structure is engineered
to support the weight.  Seems WM did OK.



 



 




_________________________________
sling_shot fly_smiley


Dave Shepard

When buying any mill, support equipment is also a consideration, and with a high production mill, it is a serious consideration. I know the LT70 has produced over 1,200 feet an hour with the right material flow. That will take a lot of help, probably a log deck, and a really good loader or forkift. Then you have to do something with the products after you've sawn them. You may find that you are sawing hard for three hours, and then spending the rest of the day trying to get caught up. :D
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

labradorguy

Quote from: dboyt on December 09, 2014, 09:46:07 AM
Welcome to the  forum!  Not on your list, but if you'd like to get in a little time on a Norwood HD36 (manual-- but hydraulics are optional), you're welcome to visit.  I'm located about 8 miles southeast of Neosho, MO.

I appreciate that offer. I'm going to investigate their offerings and I may take you up on that. Very kind of you Sir.

Support Equipment: You mean deadbeat brothers and their kids aren't enough?? :) Seriously, I've got that covered. I may have a bottleneck in the area of kilns though. Some of the market is calling for dried wood and I can see a big mill overloading a kiln quickly. I'm fairly ignorant in the area of kilns too. I'm looking into it and also looking into how to balance production/capacity/sales right now. I've even considered adding something like a Multitek 1620SS for firewood processing to keep everything in balance. Like I said, I'm still working out some kinks. :)

backwoods sawyer

Quote from: labradorguy on December 09, 2014, 05:43:15 PM
Support Equipment: You mean deadbeat brothers and their kids aren't enough?? :)
That might work out for monday and tuesday but the rest of the week ??? ;D
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

hunz

Well I'm a Wood-Mizer man today, tomorrow, and forever. I flat out love mine, and so do my customers. Aside from visiting manufacturers, I'm a huge YouTube proponent when it comes to seeing how a mill functions in "real time". I could sit and watch Wmizer videos all day. One pet peeve I have always had of one mill maker, is that every video they have is filmed in time elapsed ( sped up). How can a guy see how the things performs in real life with you hitting the fast forward button?.....trust me, I won't get bored of watching a mill make beautiful lumber in "real time". I do believe they make a quality mill though!

 
Dream as if you'll saw forever; saw as if you'll die today.



2006 Woodmizer LT40D51RA, Husqvarna 372xp, Takeuchi TL140

5quarter

Slingshot...lop off one of those wings and see what happens.  ;) :D :D

   Seriously though, Welcome to the jungle Labradorguy. Every mill you mention is top of the line; any one of them will keep you panting like a dog trying to keep up. If you plan to do a lot of portable milling, you're going to want the lt-70. That monorail system allows you to saw some stuff other mills can't. Like oversized logs and other odd shapes that would not fit between the posts of other mills. I also think the bunks are more ergonomically designed for the offbearer, but if you get the drag back option, then that's not so important. Something I don't like is the electric-over-hydraulic controls. They were jerky and a little over responsive, but that's probably a steep learning curve on my part. Also, this was on a lt-40 super...perhaps the 70 is different.
   If I were stationary (which I am), I'd buy the AC-36. Backwoods gave some good feedback on it. I would only add that the hydraulic controls were very smooth and fast and everything seemed to be right where its supposed to be, if you get my meaning. I only got to saw one log on it(good sized white oak), but by the middle of the second cut I was in love. This particular mill had been run hard and was a little scarred up, but was cutting dead on perfect.
   The other two I can't say much about. I did run a B-20 for a month or so, but I spent more time fixing and aligning the mill than I did running it. A tree service friend of mine had bought at various times both the B-20 and a Lucas 6-18 with the slabbing attachment.  He had tried to run them a couple times, but gave up when he couldn't seem to get a good board out of either of them. what a waste (he bought them both used and was disappointed when they were not plug and play)  :-\. I have zero exposure to baker mills, But member Tom owned one, so its safe to assume its top shelf.
   There is no substitute for running the mills you're interested in. Look at what you are aiming to do and get the mill that best fits your plan. I look forward to hearing how you make out.
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

ladylake

 After over 10000 hours on my B20 I find it has very few break downs and doesn't need adjustment very often and when it does it's easy to work on.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

labradorguy

Thanks Gents for all the feedback. I'm going to narrow down my list and do some running around to try them all out and see where I land. :)

36 coupe

I bought a Thomas mill.built 8 miles from me.Dale Thomas delivered my mill free and showed me how to mill a cherry log I had on hand.Priceless as I had done business with him and trusted his advice.You cant go wrong buying a Thomas product......

xlogger

Not sure why the guy had problems with his B-20, the guys I know on here have good luck with theirs. I have a TK2000 and I'm very happy with the way it cuts.
Timberking 2000, Turbo slabber Mill, 584 Case, Bobcat 773, solar kiln, Nyle L-53 DH kiln

4x4American

Boy, back in my day..

4x4American

Boy, back in my day..

Foxtrapper

I learned to saw on a TimberHarvestor.  One of the best mills ever built in MHO.  It is too bad they went out of business.  I also had a homemade rig I bought off ebay for awhile.  That mill taught me more about the hows and whys of sawing lumber than any mill I have run, but, I didn't like it, at all.  So when I started looking for a new mill, I looked at all of them, and ended up with a WM.

There is a lot to like about WM mills, but the most important thing was price.  I bought my lt28 during the Great Sawmill Sale, which saved me $1850 off the mill, plus they delivered it to the Hannibal NY dealer for free.  Timberking and Cooks wanted $2000 plus just to deliver their mills, and then I would've had to travel 6 hours one way to Timberking's dealership to pick it up, or pay another $900 to have it delivered.

As far as milling goes, I've milled 6200 bd feet on this mill since I picked it up in Nov, and haven't had too many problems with it.  It is all manual log handling, but I did get the deck package so the loading and turning jobs can be done with a hand winch.  The only improvement I can think of would be to have two winches so I don't have to switch the cable between log loading and log turning..I love my mill.

The WM bashing by Timberking was a turnoff to me.  I don't want to know what you think of the compitition's mill, just tell me why I should buy your mill..just saying...
2014 WoodMizer LT28

sandsawmill14

Quote from: xlogger on December 13, 2014, 05:33:16 AM
Not sure why the guy had problems with his B-20, the guys I know on here have good luck with theirs. I have a TK2000 and I'm very happy with the way it cuts.

We have a b 20 bought used and Timberking was very helpful when we were trying to get started with it. It saws good lumber and has pretty good production. we cut averaged 7779 bdft (oak) per week last 3 weeks Im hoping for 10000 per week but i dont know if the mill has it in it or not. Im sawing without setworks now while custom setworks is being built maybe the setworks will make me alittle faster. ???
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

beenthere

QuoteJust because someone is a sponsor dont mean that we can't talk about their products on here.  They're sponsoring the FF so that we can converse on the forum.  That is the whole point of a forum.

I'd suggest being real careful how that is interpreted. Have heard many times that this forum isn't for venting gripes.
Discussing problems and getting some help from members is the norm, but taking potshots at sponsors or any mfg. in lieu of other means doesn't seem to fly here. Boils down to how the head man, Jeff, wants his forum used.
If in doubt, send Jeff a PM.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

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