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Buying a mill. Looking at brands.

Started by labradorguy, December 08, 2014, 12:29:36 PM

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labradorguy

Hi all. I'm looking at purchasing a mill and am getting ready to visit several factories (and hopefully some owners) prior to making my decision. I'm currently in the process of coming up with a short list. I'd really like to get some thoughts, ideas, observations, and/or opinions from people who have no dog in the hunt. It's not that salespeople are not forthcoming with issues, but.....

I searched some older threads, but the way things are constantly changing and evolving, I thought I might just start a new one.

I'm looking at the:
Baker 3665D
Timberking 2400
Cook AC-36
Wood-Mizer LT70

I have to say that I don't like the way Timberking seems to bash everyone else, but I do like their hydraulics. I am hearing that there are issues with the Wood-Mizer being overly complicated and their parts are specialized. I don't know how true that is. I prefer hydraulics over electronics when that is an option. Cook is six months out on delivery. To me that says something. I like the Baker weighing 7800lb. It sounds like they build them heavy. There is a lot to consider here.

If anyone has anything to add, I would sincerely appreciate it.

Thank you for reading.

drobertson

All good and proven mills, with the exception of the ones that seem to need work before getting on line, (all have had issues)  My only gripe with what I've heard from every one that has bought all the ones you've listed, is this, if you are not in for the long haul and issues arise that will stretch the initial investment, which often times is under a guarantee,  and you are one of the smaller players, then at times it seems that you could be put on another shelf, it takes a maintenance man, if you will to go into the biz,  please don't take this the wrong way, but on this forum, anything mentioned that has a negative context will be approached as a bash if the mill manufacturer is a sponsor.  So which ever mill you decide on, it is my humble opinion that if any issues arise, take it up with the tech reps and leave it off the forum until the issue is rectified, then share the good news of the success with those in the same shoes. 
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

buzzegray


Dave Shepard

I don't consider my Wood-Mizer to be overly complicated. If you want advanced features like setworks, then that means computers. Any computer system is more complicated than simply looking at a scaleboard. On the high production mills you are looking at, you can't take the time to fuss with trying to hit the mark on the scaleboard, you have to let the mill make the sets. Again, as to specialized parts, any mill that uses a computer system will have their own parts. No matter what brand you buy, having certain wear items that are not readily available at the parts store in stock is a good idea. You can buy B57 bandwheel belts for the LT30/40/50 at the parts store, but they are not the specific GoodYear belt that is made just for WM. They are cheap, I keep a couple of pairs in the tool box. Sawmills are like trucks. You can buy some of the parts at NAPA, like bearings or a fan belt, and sometime you have to go to the dealer, like for circuit board or the side view mirror you snapped off on that tree plowing snow. :D

From what I've read here on the Forum, any of the mills you are looking at are rugged, serious, high production mills. My personal experience with Wood-Mizer has been top notch.

drobertson, I don't think it is a problem to talk about mills on the Forum, but if someone is trying to push a load of bull, then people aren't going to stand for it. 4x4American's trouble with his TimberKing should be proof of that. There were several Orange guys on those threads, myself included, that pushed him to stick it out and not trade in for a Wood-Mizer when he was frustrated. He has got his mill running, and it looks like TimberKing is working on an improved guide arm to help with some of the trouble he is having.

labradorguy, good luck in your search. I would try to find the mills you are looking at and see them run and talk to the owners to get their opinions. If anyone, whether it be a sawmill owner, or a manufacturer, tells you the WM cantileaver head is a bad design, then I call BULL! And so will every other WM owner out there. ;) There are plenty of comparison points between the mills, but that isn't one of them, in fact, I consider it a huge advantage. ;) ;)
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

POSTON WIDEHEAD

I have never ran any of the mills on your list.
But I do run a Woodmizer LT40HD29G with the simple set.
Complicated? My 12 year old son can run it and I let him....it is literally a piece of cake.

I have to be honest and say I don't really understand what the adjective "specialized" means when referring to WM parts.
I've had parts I've had to replace from basically sawing everyday. I just pic up the phone, give them my ID number and the part I need and the new part is on its way.  :)

Now all this pertains to me. Buy the mill that suits your needs. I bought the WM because my neighbor had one for 23 years and I was his off bearer on and off. The operation of his mill is what sold me and suited me.
I can promise you 1 thing......if this is your first mill.......you're gonna have a ball!  8)
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Robert Owens

My advice is to take your time and go visit each mill you are interested in. I took over a year looking at mills and talking to the companies and owners before ordering mine. In the end I bought a Cooks and there was a wait time of about five months. Well worth the wait. I have cut about 6000 bd. Ft. Of pine and oak over the last seven months and have enjoyed every minute. Now it's time to start building my shop and sawmill shed. Good luck!

pine

I almost bought the Cooks AC-36 but due to one issue I did not.
Buyers remorse: I really wish I had bought the Cooks instead. 
Waiting a couple of months for your new mill is well worth the time unless you have a deadline that you have to get started by. 
Cooks makes a great mill.  Sharpener and setter as well.

If you have not listened to the Cook's DVD on the AC-36 in it entirety do so.  Even if you buy another mill you will learn a lot from him.

GAB

labradorguy:
If you have the time you should try and be the off bearer for each of the mills you are considering.  Bed height and design could affect productivity for some people.
You can learn a lot just removing lumber from a mill.
I personally have no experience with the mills on your list.
Wishing you the best in your search. 
Gerald
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

thecfarm

labradorguy,welcome to the forum. I bet I looked for 20 years before I bought mine. Mine is nothing like what you are looking at. I just wanted one to play with.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Magicman

Quote from: labradorguy on December 08, 2014, 12:29:36 PMI'm looking at purchasing a mill and am getting ready to visit several factories (and hopefully some owners) prior to making my decision. 
That is a very good strategy.  I am Orange and I have no experience with any of the sawmill on your list, but I would not discount any until I did my homework.

Oh and Welcome to the Forestry Forum, labradorguy.   8)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

dgdrls

Welcome to the FF Labradorguy,

Lots of great wisdom here.  I noticed you listed some big machines.
Whats your plan for sawing?   Depending on where your heading product wise
you may want to consider a circle style mill.

Best
DGDrls

woodmills1

I will repeat forever that woodmizer has treated me like their best customer even though I have never bought a mill from them.  Two different used mills (LT40  LT70) and the help and assistance has been first rate, timley and correct.  I do buy WM blades and most parts.
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

Banjo picker

If you would fill in your location, you might get some invites to see and possibly run some of those mills.  Welcome to the FF....Banjo
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

labradorguy

Thanks for all the info guys. I sincerely appreciate it.

To answer a few questions.... I have nothing now. I had a mill that ran off of a PTO. No, I did not like it. It was great 1920's tech. Time to upgrade. lol.

I have an odd work schedule and I want to fill in some idle time. It's just not in me to sit around and keep up the the Kardashians. I have a few hundred acres of timber and access to more. Mainly white oak, red oak, and cedar. I've been selectively logging some of the oak and cedar and taking it to local mills, but to be honest, I am tired of the scaling game. I've found buyers for sawmill posts/boards and I'm looking at cutting out the mills. I'm still working out some numbers and some kinks, but a plan is coming together.

Regarding my questions and comments that were made to me from marketing guys.... Yeah, there were a lot of negative comments about W-M cantilevers. I was told that uptime was lowest with the W-M too. I heard that Cook made the toughest saw, and that Timberking claimed a lot of "advantages" that were actually pretty much shared across the industry. They claim the heaviest, toughest saw but from what I have looked at on paper, it looks like Baker has them beat. IDK. I'm just wading into it and trying to formulate a plan. A lot of that is marketing BS, and I understand that. I have to say though that I don't really care all that much for their electric feed system, but again, that is just a general first impression.

I was an engineer for Cat and you know, every other equipment company makes their comparisons to Caterpillar. That says something about the company and their products and I'm thinking that the same thing applies to Wood-Mizer....

Again, Timberking and their bashing bugs me. I'm considering taking them off of the list but I don't want to do that if their mills truly are the bee's knees... :)

Thanks for the welcome guys and for the info.




Tree Dan

Welcome to the fourm Labradorguy...You sure have your work cut out for you.
They all look good to me...best of luck on your adventure.
Wood Mizer LT40HD, Kubota KX71, New Holland LS150, Case TR270
6400 John Deere/with loader,General 20" planer, Stihl 880, Stihl 361, Dolmar 460, Husqvarna 50  and a few shovels,
60" and 30" Log Rite cant hooks, 2 home built Tree Spades, Homemade log splitter

Magicman

My take is that the only folks making negative comments about WM Cantilever design are those have no experience with one.  That design is actually a very good feature and allows you to many times saw irregular logs that are beyond the advertised 36" (for my LT40).  That is absolutely not possible with a post machine.

Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

uler3161

I think if you're just filling "idle time", you probably don't need quite as fancy of a mill as any of those listed. Those mills are more of a 2-3 person production mill that you probably should be running full time.

Negative comments about the cantilever design really bug me. They are very much a proven design. When properly aligned, all mills cut good lumber. When out of alignment, they will cut junk. We've had LT40s for nearly 25 years, so I trust the design completely and there's a ton of WM owners who will agree. I think if you see one in action you'll agree too.

I'm not sure if I can give an opinion either way on the electric feed system. We've had a few issues over the years (mostly the feed control box), but it's not been enough to be a serious problem. I'd prefer to have a beefier feed motor, but it gets the job done and we've never had to replace or repair one. I'm sure newer mills (especially the LT70) have a better motor.

I haven't seen them up close, but I think you're right about the Baker being toughest. If WM weren't in the game, I'd be bleeding blue instead of orange.
1989 LT40HD, WoodMaster 718

Dan

POSTON WIDEHEAD

In the South East, equipment buyers and owners do not compare their equipment to Caterpillar.
Even Caterpillar owners compare their equipment to JOHN DEERE.  :)
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Banjo picker

Looks like you are too far away, but if you get over to ne miss you can have a go on the AC 36.   :)  Banjo
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

customsawyer

First welcome to the forum. I can tell you with my experience with WM LT70s you will need good help and a edger to be able to keep up with it.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Peter Drouin

If you get a LT70 get the wide head. :D :D :D :D
And welcome.

A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

bandmiller2

Labradorguy, you really can't go wrong with any mills you listed. I only have experiance with the LT-70 and my own homemade bandmill. The guys have pretty much covered it but I have a couple of opinions. I operated an WM LT-70 for two years part time and I was impressed with their engineering. The electronics and computer on any mill are a two edged sword, increased production, ease of operation but complicated and expensive to repair. If the mill will be kept out of the weather and used frequently you will have minimal problems with the electronics. For intermittent use and stored outdoors I would go for hydraulic controls and simplicity. You said you had a PTO driven mill would that have been a Bellsaw.?? Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

ozarkgem

I don't own any of the brands you mentioned (mine is a Mighty Might) but I have looked at a lot of mills and my opinion is WM is the best engineered mill. I have no experience with customer service with any of the mills so no comment on that. If I buy another mill it will be a WM. Not that any of them are bad I just think WM goes the extra mile in engineering time. This advice is worth exactly what you are being charged for it. 
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

Dave Shepard

After watching customsawyer's LT70 dragging back 40' slabs and boards, I wasn't to worried about the electric feed.  :D

As Magicman said, it's the people who haven't run a WM complain about the cantilever head, not the people who have sawn a hundred thousand, half a million, or maybe even a few million feet using one.

Talk to mill owners about their machine, not some other machine that they don't own. Find out what each owner likes about their machine. Ignore anyone trying to sell you something.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

highleadtimber16

I've got a Woodmizer LT 40 Hydraulic and love it. The only issue I've had with it, is the rain doing it's thing on small electric parts. A roof solves that problem. Or just not living where it rains 7 days a week in the winter!  ;) My grandfather has a circular saw and a 4 post Woodcraft mill. Woodcraft is made here in BC, and are solid mills. I much prefer the cantilever design though. Some big things I noticed are, it makes blade changing easier, and the carriage moves much smoother. An LT 70 is a lot of mill, but there's a few guys around here using them as one man shows. If you're not cutting everyday the LT 40 Super or LT 50 might suit you better. Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with other brands, but there's lots to choose from! Good luck!
2011 Wood-Mizer LT 40 hyd w/ 12' Extension,
EG 200 Wood-Mizer
Cutting Old Growth Cedar from Queen Charlotte Islands.

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