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Calling all John Deere 440 Gurus ...

Started by RayMO, December 06, 2014, 10:23:33 PM

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RayMO

I have a 68 440 with a syncro range transmission and have been fighting issues for over 3 weeks and could use any help I can get. It all started when it developed a hydraulic leak and my son was on a long drag and the top shaft had the gear next to oil/charge pump seize on shaft. Pulled the transmission and replaced the whole top shaft and put all new synchronizers while at it.

Put it together and the hydraulics only work poorly when clutch is engaged and stop completely when you push the clutch in. Pulled the brake cover off and put new charge pump and new orings in oil pick up tube and outlet tubes. tested the check valve at bottom of output tube and put her back together with little improvement.

Then installed a newly rebuilt main pump up front with no improvement. Replaced fluid and filters early on.When it is cold it works a little and after about 30 minutes and warming up it wont even lift the blade or turn at all.

put new brakes in her while I was at it not that that should effect any thing. About at wits end and 3 week of spending money on it while not being able to log/earn money is getting old fast .Getting way behind on my jobs as well...

It is loosing all hydraulics without the charge pump feeding the main pump it appears to me and before incident it worked great.

Any ideas guys???
PS The transmission shifts and works flawlessly ...
Father & Son Logging and sawing operation .

lopet

I am by far not a 440 guru, but the way you describe your problem, it sounds to me you're having oil bypassing somewhere.
I would start with installing pressure gauges along the line , maybe a sticky valve.
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

Ford_man

If it has a hyd clutch maybe there is a leak to the clutch. Do you Have power steering and do it work when the clutch is depressed?

RayMO

Tested cleaned both check valves as per shop manual. Has power steering but mechanical clutch and no steering or any hydraulics within seconds of pushing in the clutch pedal which disengages main shaft turning charge pump.
I believe main pump is loosing its prime so to speak when charge pump quits feeding it. Just not sure what is causing it .

All lines are tight and little to no leaks that I can see. Checked all possible issues the shop manual mentions including the check valve on main outlet next to filter housing on tranny.

The differential lock is not connected and was that way over a year ago when I bought the machine. The old 440's are great when working but a pain when not and you try to find causes of issues. I have a second parts machine for what it is worth.

Not against taking to a real mechanic but most John Deere guys around here are youngsters and have no clue about older forestry equipment.
Father & Son Logging and sawing operation .

Ford_man

If the pump is in front of the engine like the 4020 farm tractors there is a screen in that pump and if the O"ring is blown it will not work. the screen is about 1 inch in dia and about 2 in long with a hex cap.

RayMO

Will check it out but it is a brand new reman pump so "should" be right and yes on front just like the tractors. Did exact same with old pump. Dumped about $4,000.00 in new parts and still no joy lol .
Father & Son Logging and sawing operation .

coxy

sounds like part of your press plate is not working    you say it works till you push in the clutch    sounds like you my have buggered the splines on live power side  of press plate  :-\  they are a pain in the ass to bleed the air out of them with the bleeders on the steering shaft one of jd brain storms  :D just a thought on it  please let us know what it was IF YOU FIND OUT  :)

Brian_Rhoad

The charge pump doesn't run if you push in the clutch.

duckslayingpro

Where are you located at? I know of a real good older john deere mechanic if your not too far away.

RayMO

Charge pump does not pump when clutch pushed in. I wonder about the live power issue as when gear seized on shaft it locked machine up as was trying to go forward and backwards at same time like in two gears at once. Winch pto works fine. I will have to investigate as I think you may be onto something coxy .

I am located near Nevada MO south of KC
Father & Son Logging and sawing operation .

duckslayingpro

Ok. Sorry we are too far south then. Were south of Poplar Bluff, MO.
I also think you'll may be on to something with the stripped gears.

coxy

if charge pump does not pump when clutch is pushed in how do you have hydro press to the blade and steering  or does that work off the front pump and the charge pump just works tranny  ??? ??? :)

duckslayingpro

"Charge pump or prime pump" primes the main pump up front is all the pump in the transmission does.
how was the screen in the transmission?

Oliver05262

Coxy, the charge pump does quit when the clutch is depressed, and you no longer have oil going to the main pump. You quickly lose all steering and blade hydraulics.
  JD had a similar setup on the 3010/3020 and 4010/4020 tractors; you quickly lost loader functions when you pushed the clutch. Any internal leaks of either low pressure or high pressure oil quickly drain the oil in the reservoir over the main pump.
Oliver Durand
"You can't do wrong by doing good"
It's OK to cry.
I never did say goodby to my invisible friend.
"I woke up still not dead again today" Willy
Don't use force-get a bigger hammer.

RayMO

Screen had quite a bit of old brake shoe residue but was in perfect condition . When the gear seized to the top shaft it almost stalled the motor at full throttle with a couple of trees in tow in 4th gear I think .
It is my understanding the tranny pump only primes the main pump up front of the motor and then the main pump continues with some sort of bypass type check valve ....
Father & Son Logging and sawing operation .

RayMO

On a side note I bought a 440 B in pretty good shape this evening and hope to put her to work while I sort out the older girl . I figures since I have a third complete parts machine except for the transmission housing having a big hole in the bottom I might as well buy some more misery  ;D
Father & Son Logging and sawing operation .

coxy

 is that why when going down a steep hill and hit the brakes  you cant steer or when steering around a sharp turn your brakes  will fade     they are a good skidder BUT I will never ever own another one  :)

loggerox

When you drained your oil out of the transmission there is a control valve that will fall out and you might not notice it, that control valve was in about 90% of that type of transmissions. I would check the oil you drained and look for the valve. This has happened to me! Hope this helps. 

RayMO

Gave up on it for a while. One of these days when it gets muddy I will tackle it again as it cant be to serious a problem I hope . Sometimes a guy need to take a step back and give it a break.
Father & Son Logging and sawing operation .

KyLogger

I am seriously considering giving my 440B a permanent "break" I worked on it for half the day today trying to figure out why the temp gauge barely ever moves and it puts water out the rad. overflow in a hard pull....... Time to try a C or a D I guess, just hate to borrow money. My stuff is paid off and you never know what the weather will do or if that next job is gonna happen...... I am stuck in that in between stage that weeds out the guys that stick with it from the hobby loggers...... Too big to run old wore out equipment, and too small to buy new.....
I only work old iron because I secretly have a love affair with my service truck!

redprospector

Quote from: KyLogger on December 12, 2014, 08:27:56 PM
I am seriously considering giving my 440B a permanent "break" I worked on it for half the day today trying to figure out why the temp gauge barely ever moves and it puts water out the rad. overflow in a hard pull....... Time to try a C or a D I guess, just hate to borrow money. My stuff is paid off and you never know what the weather will do or if that next job is gonna happen...... I am stuck in that in between stage that weeds out the guys that stick with it from the hobby loggers...... Too big to run old wore out equipment, and too small to buy new.....

A new radiator cap fixed my 440b from the same thing.
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

Ford_man

I got an old JD 2010 farm tractor that is gas and had the same problem. After changing the water pump and the thermostat and rad cap I put in a can of stop leak and the problem went away. Good luck

Bdasherlogging

I have a 1962 John Deere 440BA sling tractor I have been trying to get rid of that I never use. It's in fairly good shape everything works on it but I'm in Georgia.

snowstorm

Quote from: KyLogger on December 12, 2014, 08:27:56 PM
I am seriously considering giving my 440B a permanent "break" I worked on it for half the day today trying to figure out why the temp gauge barely ever moves and it puts water out the rad. overflow in a hard pull....... Time to try a C or a D I guess, just hate to borrow money. My stuff is paid off and you never know what the weather will do or if that next job is gonna happen...... I am stuck in that in between stage that weeds out the guys that stick with it from the hobby loggers...... Too big to run old wore out equipment, and too small to buy new.....
is it blowing bubbles in the coolant? if so head gasket or the liner flange is cracked. often times somone will say it only needs a head gasket. in these deeres the liner will wear the liner flange. then you put head gaskets ever 6 months. the cure is new liners along with pistons

coxy


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