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Stihl ms 192 t c-e or c-e

Started by IL80, November 29, 2014, 01:17:29 PM

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IL80

Looking at getting a Stihl 192 t c-e or the c-e. Need a super light weight and compact saw I can carry easily through the timber on steep terrain. Local shop here works on sells and services Stihl.. I'm doing some TSI, ringing larger junk trees and felling some smaller soft wood trees (less than 12"). Thinking of the top handle version because it packs smaller but maybe the standard rear handle is better? Need a reliable saw for sure...any thoughts and thanks.

Reddog

Rear handle if working on the ground most of the time.

Top handles will get you in trouble quick on the ground.

67x

  I bought one a few years ago to use as a climbing saw for personal use.  I don't climb much but I have put many gallons through the little bugger.  What I thought was going to be a specific use item turned into my primary weapon of choice.  I've ground level limbed about 9 acres of my own stock including the dropping of a hundred plus standing dead pine.  As recently as this last Tuesday I used it ALL DAY to clear 15 year growth off a prior cleared house lot.  Always cut low and there is lots to be said for one handed operation.  14" bar on mine and I've laid down items over twice that.  Sharp chain is your friend, when I buy one I buy two and the baby Stihl may well be the second best bang for the buck next to my chain grinder I've ever bought.  That said, remove or keep your spark arrester screen clean!!  Not to discredit Reddog but my opinion is 180 off and perhaps its an attribute to our work styles or that Im not a large man and I require a tool than can be worked all day,, by me.  This saw has never tried to hurt me even with over ground rakers, or rather, a soft wood bite on hardwood.

Reddog

One handing a saw is never a good option, injury statistics prove it.

Same goes for using a top handle on the ground. You do not have the same control over the saw as a rear handle. Again statistics back this up, as does personal observation.

Glad to hear you have beat the odds so far.

Having had to witness chainsaw injuries I take any reasonable precaution to avoid them, they seem to leave lasting marks.

sprucebunny

Love my MS192.

Wish I had bought it or it's previous model instead of struggling with the less expensive MS180 which was not as dependable , powerful or light.
MS193, MS192 and an 026  Weeding and Thinning. Gilbert Champion sawmill

CR888

So why is a top handle so dangerous on the ground and so safe when used high up in a tree?? Sounds like you pay attention to the 'lawyers advice' written by those in suits not holding a saw trying to make a living. Top handles are a purpose built saw with more engineering in them than the safer rear handles. A quality top handle will have perfect balance and in experienced hands in situations can be by far the safest option to use weather on the ground or not. It is a myth that a TH saw is dangerous...especially when used on the ground.

Reddog

You don't have the same leverage and control during a kickback situation in a felling cut.

Also easy to run one handed which gives you no control in a kick back.

Sorry run top handles a lot. My observations of injures to fellow Arborist/tree workers, not lawyers.

DonT

I am going to side with Red dog on this one.I use my 200T when climbing but use a  rear handled saw on the ground.They make a rear handled 192 do they not?

HolmenTree

Don't know about the 192 rear handle but I have run the MS200 rear and it's a nice small cube saw to run  ,also the Husqvarna 338XP.
Like Reddog I can't use my MS200T OR 338XPT on the ground , just way too awkward with the short handle spacing.
These top handles are for the pro arborists who excel in climbing on a rope and use a saw to precision in the topping and rigging cuts. Not for the all terrain Quad driver who wants a compact saw to one hand with clearing willows to make a new trail with............... ;) :D
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Andyshine77

I have a top handle saw that I exclusivity on the ground. Yes they are a bit more dangerous, but it's not a problem if you use a little commonsense. IMHO kickback isn't the real issue, using the saw with one had is.  :)   
Andre.

67x

  For the record when I mentioned one handed operation, it is not the norm and rarely utilized.  But, I do it and it can be very effective breaking down crowns or pushing over small leaners while finishing a cut.  Only fell cut kicks I personally have ever had was when not doing my homework cleaning around the job and snagging something I overlooked and only then it was minor and never tripped the chain brake.  What ever works for YOU and keeps you in your comfort zone is what's important.  And lets all agree there are people who have no business owning a chain saw and some that will never become skilled.  Electric saws and working tired I find way more dangerous than if I was to tape the throttle wide open on my 192 then swing it around with authority on a short rope to clear pecker poles.

HolmenTree

Some countries ban the general consumer from owning these top handle saws, only allowing the dealers to sell them to licensed professional arborists.
My Stihl MS200T and  Husqvarna 338XPT owners manuals also stress this information.

With their small radius nose bars and extended pitch chains helping reduce  kickback ....kickback is not the primary safety issue here. It's the one hand operation of them  with the free hand holding the branch.

Severe hand cuts from this style of cutting is the main issue. People have cut whole parts of their hands off . Now an accident can't get much more severe than that.
Reports out there also tell of operators cutting a branch under tension one handed and the spinning chain is driven into their face or neck.

These high power compact little saws are attractive to use and most times not respected enough. Yes they make quick work of removing a bush in the back yard. It feels really nice to be able to cut and at the same time with your free hand throw the brush to the side.......until you cut your hand off!!
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

67x

  Alright, I'm not done having fun with this one yet.  The weather finally allowed getting back to something I enjoyed doing for money today, dropping and breaking down some one else's trees.  Used a 362 Stihl that was spanking new last week for the first 3/4 of this day.  The 362 gets things done, but at my expense.  I left a  bunch of smaller stuff, 10" minus, mostly minus for when I tired.  Fired up the big bad scary 192 pretty much just because I brought it and had put a fresh edge on the chain this morning before work.  From that moment on all I could think about is cutting my hand off!  For real, now I know world governments secret, instill fear and with fear comes doubt and with doubt comes compliance and with etc..  Fear is a disease, that's what I concluded today.  Anyway I lay down a bunch of red oaks, maples, white birch, really low to the ground, branched, topped, all of it including one hand operation.  The 192 is a fine little saw just slow on flare wood. 

HolmenTree

There you go 67x, every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts. ;)

I've been teaching the safe operation of the world's "most dangerous hand held power tool" for over 25 years now.
Even had the pleasure of having Hans Peter Stihl in person writing down notes of my advice of the chain brake design of the Stihl 044.
But my greatest pleasure is having past students thanking me for the good advice I taught them, that saved them from a potential serious injury.
And yes a few of them were from the hundreds of Mr. Know it All. :D
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

67x

  Interesting reply.  I have zero formal training in forestry, lots in construction.  Would love to sit in on one of your teachings and would love more to spend time with some one extremely skilled at felling large trees.  As for worlds most dangerous hand held power tool, that's debatable.  My opinion is based solely on my own experience and in my reference to yesterday I really was trying to understand why you and Reddog had such negative input on something so functional.  Honestly, I just don't see it.  But, revert back to my prior points about people.

  I have no statistics of which to base my argument nor do I know umpteen people with chain saw scars.  And if I do cut off my hand I'm going to mount baby saw on the stump like Ash did in the Evil Dead.  Sorry, I like humor and sarcasm.  While I'm on that kick, couldn't help notice Reddog has what appears to be a top handle in his avatar and with the catch phrase of 'been there done that', well, that wreaks of know it all LOL.  I'm teasing, it's a funny, laugh!!

Reddog

Sorry two guys with over 50 years combined chainsaw experience were trying to help keep you safe.

Won't happen again from me.

HolmenTree

67x , yes we're only trying to keep you safe............plus a few others on this forum as young as 13 years old.
But I have to say at least Reddog has two hands on that saw in his avator......in mine with my "been there done that" I'll give you one point or maybe two. Even Hans Peter Stihl proved to me his was always open to learning.
And just for that I changed my quote in my avatar, thankyou sir for reminding me.  :)
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

67x

  HolmenTree, I don't like it,,, I love it!!!  Reddog, it's all good I'm sure you have valid points to share but putting it in short 2 or 3 sentence replies doesn't articulate well.  It receives more as, "matter of fact", and I don't intend that as offensive.  I love a good conversation and can take a punch so don't hold back.  Don't worry about keeping me safe, that's my job.  Now as far as the younger folk or shall we say, less case hardened, my bad as it didn't enter into my field of view.  Please do continue on your quest.

  No tree killing today, plow/sand so Ill get my fix with conversation and the woodlot walk I just took with the dog.  I really like trees,, and chain saws!

Paul_H

Quote from: 67x on December 12, 2014, 01:26:23 PM
I have zero formal training in forestry, 

  I have no statistics of which to base my argument nor do I know umpteen people with chain saw scars.


:D :D 8) 8)
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

HolmenTree

Quote from: Paul_H on December 12, 2014, 04:14:24 PM
Quote from: 67x on December 12, 2014, 01:26:23 PM
I have zero formal training in forestry, 

  I have no statistics of which to base my argument nor do I know umpteen people with chain saw scars.


:D :D 8) 8)
I can't argue with that , makes me think 67x is swinging law books other than just saws. :D 8)
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

ZeroJunk

I think anybody who uses saws regularly is aware of the leverage difference. I use top handle saws on the ground sometimes and treat them accordingly. The notion that it is inevitable that a top handle saw is going to hurt you is more an indictment of the operator.

Reddog

So the first words from the MS192TC instruction manual.


QuoteMS 192 T, MS 192 TC

This top handle chain saw is designed
specifically for tree surgery and
maintenance in the tree.

So looking at the OP's question

Quote from: IL80 on November 29, 2014, 01:17:29 PM
Looking at getting a Stihl 192 t c-e or the c-e. Need a super light weight and compact saw I can carry easily through the timber on steep terrain. Local shop here works on sells and services Stihl.. I'm doing some TSI, ringing larger junk trees and felling some smaller soft wood trees (less than 12"). Thinking of the top handle version because it packs smaller but maybe the standard rear handle is better? Need a reliable saw for sure...any thoughts and thanks.

No were does he mention any aerial or in tree work.

So this T handle saw does not fit their use/needs as set forward by the manufacturer or any other training organization.




ZeroJunk

So, you are thinking that it is more dangerous with both feet planted on the ground.

Reddog

Proven fact that top handle saws used on the ground cause more fatigue during use and more accidents than a rear handle counter part.

UK's HSE did a massive study because of the injury rate with top handles. Their bottom line was that they are needed for aerial work, but should not be used on the ground.

With on ground injuries that high in pro/trained users, no they are not safer with two feet on the ground.

ZeroJunk

Chainsaws are dangerous, top handle saws somewhat more dangerous. As dangerous as riding a motorcycle compared to a full sized vehicle ? I don't think so.

If you want to poke the nose of it into something throttled up you are not going to like any of them.

If you want to pack one or have one that fits on the floor board of your tractor they are handy.

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