what is the going cord price for Black ash in MN

[Blinddog]

Hi All - we have 40 acres of Black ash in the 16- 20 inch range.
just curious what the going cord price is for Black ash in MN.

Thanks,
Blinddog

[barbender]

The black ash market is pretty poor. Pallet logs and firewood is likely all you would get out of the size timber you have.  I would guess between $10-20/cord for stumpage, probably closer to $10 :(

[Gearbox]

There is verry little market in northern MN it is piled up all over in I falls area . a friend bought 100 cord for $ 30 a cord delivered .Gearbox

[coxy]

what is black ash

[barbender]

One of two ash species we have in northern MN. I think the other is green ash, although everyone calls it white. Whatever the case, black ash grows in wet areas, and makes nice sawtimber if you find a stand that has any diameter to it. It's medium hard and makes beautiful paneling and flooring. There's a lot of houses up here paneled with black ash. It makes a decent firewood too. There was a veneer market for it at one time as well.
      Right now, most production loggers will run away from a sale that is just ash- most of it is sold attached to another species, for instance, a 800 cord aspen sale might have 75 cords of ash on it that the logger will have to deal with. If he's lucky, 60% will go for pallet logs and then he will have a couple loads of firewood to find a home for.

[Blinddog]

Thanks all for the info - we were offered $18.00 a cord for the Aspen which i feel is more than fair and $ 3.50 a cord for the Black ash which my guess the logger is going to sell for Veneer or saw timber. My feeling is the 3.50 is a little on the light side I would like to see around $ 5 to 5.50 for it or better - I can not see them using this timber for pulp.  I could not find much data for MN on cord pricing but Wisconsin in 2013 it was going for $ 21.00 a cord / $ 144.00 MBF Scribner). I'm sure that it out of the ballpark for Hibbing, MN but I would like to see better than 3.50.

Any thoughts what would be a fair sell price.

[barbender]

Did you sell your aspen already? If you have a decent volume of it, $18/cord is low. The pulp mills are starving for wood right now, and stumpage is going up. Even if you only had 200 cords of aspen, stumpage should still be over $20. If I had a stand of ash, I would leave it standing right now. There's no sense in giving it away, if we don't get hit by EAB for a while yet, maybe your 20" trees will make it to 26" or more, maybe the veneer market will come back. But for $3.50 a cord, what do you gain cutting it? Even if EAB wipes it out, it will still make good firewood.

[Blinddog]

Hi Barbender - Thank you for your info - we have around 250-300 cord of Aspen and alot of Ash - we need to cut do to we are enrolled in a Gov. program to save the Wabler - their paying us 440 and acre to cut in a certain way - so the logger has to cut a certain way so I know his pricing is adjusted do to the way the State program wants it cut. With that said - I am ok with getting 18 a cord on the aspen which cover his losses for extra BS the program makes him do. but the Ash being this was in addition to the land we had in the program and was the main reason he wanted to log our land, he came in low - my feeling is if we tell him that we are going to hold on the 40 acres of Ash - he may back out of doing the cut for us for the state program. So I want to be fair and make it worth it for all parties.  we have 40 Acres of Aspen/Ash mix in the program and another 40 Acres of Ash in addition to Cut.

do you feel asking for 7 or 8 a cord for the extra Ash is reasonable?

[lumbertick]

Here in michigan we pay 8 for the ash pulp and 30-40 for the logs

[barbender]

I know guys that have cut some of those warbler habitat sales. I don't know what's involved specifically, but I would consider getting a few offers from other loggers if you haven't already. If you are in the Hibbing area, there is a state forester that does some private sales up there. Everything I have heard about him has been positive. Some of the mills like UPM and Sappi will buy smaller sales like yours too. Contact them to get an offer, p.m. me for some contacts if you like. How big is your aspen? If it is bigger sized, 14" to 18" and sound, it should go for a fair amount. I'm thinking $25-$30 a cord, and the ash should pay over $10 IF it is good quality that would produce a lot of pallet logs. Savanna pallet in McGregor will buy all the ash you will bring them 6" minimum, and it pays around $100 cord. So, the right stand of ash has value. What is involved in a warbler cut, is it small openings? I'm just wondering what is involved that would slow production for the logger?

[Blinddog]

Barbender - thanks again for your info. I need to make a few calls before I sign the loggers contract. Worst case I hold the 40 Ash and let him just to the cut I need done for the State program - the program requires - Patch clearcuts - leave 10 basal area of leave trees per acre or one 1/4 acre legacy patch per. unit. these openings are not to be meant as permanent openings, but to fill in quickly with trees and shrub growth. To me it sounds like nothing to difficult to do other than they want all the current alder brush cut down. They also had a program for Chipping but the logger we are currently talking with does not have that capability.  - I will PM you for contact numbers - Please include yours.

I will be heading up to our property this next weekend to measure Aspen and Ash tree sizes. just to get a confirmed size.

Thanks again for your info.

[Blinddog]

hi Barbender,

Here is the info from the state program to give you some insite into the program.
i have also attached a pic of our property - the the state program is marked cuts 1,2 & 3.
the additional Ash we were looking to cut was between cut 1&2 and 2 &3.

 

[barbender]

I thought it was patch clearcuts they used for warbler habitat. The aerial looks fairly straightforward, other than it looks like there could be some very long skids if the landing has to be at one end of the property.
    When you measure your tree diameters, measure them at chest level (DBH, diameter breast height).

[36 coupe]

Ash brings 200 to 250 a cord as sawed firewood here.Black ash is called brown ash here.Ash makes nice window and door trim and cabinet wood.Flooring would be a good use.If I had 40 acres of ash logs I would buy a bandmill and saw it my self.Check the price of ash lumber before you give it away.

[Gearbox]

36 coup those prices are not realistic for northern MN we have band mills up the wazoo and every one is marketing something . Gearbox

[36 coupe]

You have to sell a product for the high dollar, not give it away.A poster on this forum says he can get 300 bucks for a log that would bring 30 bucks at the mill.Bundled fire wood brings 500 bucks a cord in stores.A pound of potatoes that sells for 40 cents will sell for 5 bucks as potato chips.Its called added value.People pay 5 bucks a gallon for bottled water.

[Corley5]

There has to be a market for the value added.

[barbender]

Realisticly, we have a real glut of black ash and limited markets for it. I wouldn't give it away either, and I think blinddog will get a fair price for it if is a stand that has a fair amount of pallet logs in it. If it is small or excessively crooked wood, there is no pulp market and you can only sell so much firewood. I mean, if blinddog has a lot of time (and I'm all for thinking outside the box) he could learn how to pound the black ash and seperate it into strips by the growth rings, and then weave baskets with it ;D I'm pretty sure he already has a full time job though ;)

[36 coupe]

He could make pallets.The edgings could be bundled and sold as camp wood.Camp wood brings 3 to 4 bucks a cubic foot here.No campers in MN? I see bundled fire wood selling for 5 bucks a bundle in hardware stores.Clerk said people buy it for fireplaces in a city of 40000.Lots of new veggie farms here are selling at retail direct to people.Ash pack baskets sell for big money.My pack basket and snow shoes are made from ash.

[Corley5]

Make pallets  ???

[36 coupe]

Why does the idea overwhelm you?A fellow has a business repairing pallets here.Henry Ford built his first automobile in a coal shed.Ill be back at building picnic tables next May.Cant sell them now.

[beenthere]

removed post ;)

[Corley5]

That would be an overwhelming investment in pallet manufacturing equipment and marketing for the amount of timber he has.  He isn't looking to start a business just market some black ash.

[SwampDonkey]

Used pallets can be bought for $4 bucks. I know someone here that would scrounge for pallets and there might be a missing board off the deck of it. He'd fix it and sell pickup loads of fixed pallets for $4 a pallet to the produce plant. If you start from the tree end and carry it through, whose working for nothing now? ;)

[36 coupe]

Wouldnt take to mfg pallets.If you cant see the way to do it.I quit.

[Corley5]

I've got some veneer sugar maple logs.  Guess I should buy a veneer mill  ???  ;D :D

[36 coupe]

My post on naysayers was removed.Theres no room on here for people with plans for success so Im gone....Dont like losers for company...

[beenthere]

Dont like losers for company

Hmmm?  Wonder who is the loser here? Some just weed themselves out.

[Gearbox]

what beenthrer said x2 Gearbox

[barbender]

While 36 coupe is getting all upset and hurling insults, blinddog, as far as I know from a P.M., has been out meeting with a procurement forester to get the best price he can for his timber. I believe that was the reason he posted :

[Jeff]

He won't be hurling anything here anymore