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Cold skidder

Started by timberlinetree, November 27, 2014, 06:03:56 AM

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timberlinetree

Since we got the skidder the 353 has been showing cold on the gauge. I installed a lower radiator hose heater, changed the thermostat, and tested and installed a new gauge. After letting it run 5 mins and pulling my stuck truck up the hill(maybe ten mins) the gauge hadn't moved. The engine was warm but head still cool. It was about 30 degrees out. Any ideas? Thanks
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HiTech

Not sure what is going on but I have put brand new thermostats in and they would stick open. Now I check them in a pot of water on the stove. lol Make sure they open when the water heats up and make sure they close by pouring some cold water in. 

KyLogger

My 440B is doing the same thing...........
I only work old iron because I secretly have a love affair with my service truck!

David-L

Make sure you are running a 180 or even a 190 Degree thermostat. When I took my old one out it was a 170 which is to cold for this engine. I believe these motors run better hot than cold. Regular 2" OD GM thermostat that was used from mid 60's to well into the ninety's. Car Quest # 6028 180 Degrees and the gasket that was a perfect match went to an Austin Healy 1954-1974 Fel-Pro #25538. Tried to get a 185 but they had to order it and I needed to get a workday in. Good Luck.


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Gearbox

The 353 runs a bypass and the thermostat can stay closed and it will still run cold . hook up to a turn and pull it 1/4 mile up hill and it will warm up . when warming up or leaving idle for long you should  throtle up to at least 1000 rpm . These engines are good but old school . Also they are not made to run series 3 oil as in Delo 400 or Rotella T . Gearbox
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer , TC 5 International track skidder and not near enough time

David-L

Why is there a bypass, Now I will be taking a better look at the cooling routes. Changed the thermostat recently and did notice or really look. I have to get a 53series shop book. I agree about the motor be old school though, it is pretty cheap horsepower to run. What is series 3 oil you talk of.
In two days from now, tomorrow will be yesterday.

timberlinetree

I was planning on skidding all day today but 3" of snow on top of mud I'll probably be chopping. I did see a line coming from top of water pump to thermostat housing I think? Will take a closer look today. Thanks for the help.
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Gearbox

Series 3 oil is a high ash oil for the newer engines . detroit wants you to use a series 1 oil . This is tasking my old brain . I think Rotella with no T might be right . I think I would call Detroit  . The oils have changed so much in the last 20 years . I had 1 book left Chevron Delo 100 is what you want to use . The book say's comply withD D corp 2 stroke engine recommendations . So ask your oil dealer to look in his book  . It looks like it only comes in  20 30 40 50 wt   The bypass is tust a hole around the thermostat . Gearbox
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer , TC 5 International track skidder and not near enough time

timberlinetree

I think it might have the wrong turning water pump, but still not shure. I ran it for about an hour with cardboard blocking the radiator and gauge didn't move. Shut it off and few min later it was a 115. Started it up an gauge dropped and bottomed out. I see a line/ tube that goes from the water pump into the thermostat housing but I think it drawing instead of pushing. I can't see the bypass. Does all Detroit 53 have a bypass. I just see one line going in the thermostat housing , the temp gauge sending unit and the exit hose to the radiator. Never

   would have never thought that a gasket from a Austin heally would fit in a Detroit ??? Thanks so much for the help!
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treeslayer2003

Quote from: timberlinetree on November 29, 2014, 06:03:25 AM
I think it might have the wrong turning water pump, but still not shure. I ran it for about an hour with cardboard blocking the radiator and gauge didn't move. Shut it off and few min later it was a 115. Started it up an gauge dropped and bottomed out. I see a line/ tube that goes from the water pump into the thermostat housing but I think it drawing instead of pushing. I can't see the bypass. Does all Detroit 53 have a bypass. I just see one line going in the thermostat housing , the temp gauge sending unit and the exit hose to the radiator. Never

   would have never thought that a gasket from a Austin heally would fit in a Detroit ??? Thanks so much for the help!
yep they all have that line. why you think it has the wrong water pump? you think some one put the wrong one on it?

timberlinetree

Maybe it has been like this since we bought it. I thought the gauge was bad since I could smell hot engine when working it hard. I knew a girl who lost her heat in a t bird. Then it wouldn't heat up(gauge) was cold then died. Warped head from no anti freeze it all leaked out. I was thinking that when the pump draws all the antifreeze out of the housing the gauge drops from no water but fills back up slowly when the motor isn't running and I get a reading.  These motors either have a left hand/right hand pump. Any help/thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!
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ga jones

It's hard to get heat in a 353. Are u sure your gauge is ok? Do you have a thermal temp gauge you could check the head with. If it's not throwing sparks out the exhaust it's not getting hot. Water pumps on these are serviceable it's unlikely that there's a left hand pump on it.if you know for a fact that your gauge is good take the fan off and run it
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Ed_K

I'm wondering if the temp sensor is in the right place? On my 4-53 thats where the inlet spit swapper connection is. When I first got the skidder I didn't know the thermostat was missing and it ran up to 140 deg's. I'm running a 196 in it now.
Ed K

timberlinetree

I looked at other 353 and seem to have the same set up as others. I guess I will try the pump next. I was told not to run the engine until fixed. Thanks for the help!
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timberlinetree

Bummer and long story but don't have water pump yet! :'( Marcia says it will be here by Friday.
I've met Vets who have lived but still lost their lives... Thank a Vet

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timberlinetree

Ugh this is a stumper. Here's a quick run down.

1 When we got the skidder the temp didn't work.
2 replaced thermostat and gauge and still didn't move except after shutting it of it would get to 110 and would bottom out once started again.
3 replaced pump with cw turning pump and now at idle when working its at 160 but as soon as I start driving it drops to 115?


 
At idle

 
At driving maybe just 100'

 
Thinking maybe the nipple is in the wrong place or the thermostat is in backwards? Any help would be appreciated! Thanks
I've met Vets who have lived but still lost their lives... Thank a Vet

Family man and loving it :)

David-L

Timbertreeline, i will look at my nipple today on the pump, thermostat has point facing upward. check it in boiling water. buy a temp gauge and put it in the radiator fill and high idle the machine and see what it reads.

                                         David l
In two days from now, tomorrow will be yesterday.

BargeMonkey

 I will look at my 353 and see how its set up, my machine stays at 172-176 like a clock. Takes less than 10 minutes at start up to start showing heat,  doesnt change much light or loaded.

tantoy

My engine is just mirror of yours, but it looks like you have in right ports. Mine runs just like bargemonkey said. within 10 min the oil pan and filter are pretty warm/hot, stays right at 180. Looking at the front of the crankshaft the engine spins cw.


 
1968 Garrett 20 Skidder
1991 Ford 1920 Tractor/Loader
2000 Takeuchi tb135 Excavator
Stihl 020, 041 Super, 084
Husqvarna 61, 181SE, 357XP

jwilly3879

Nice looking engine. Was the bolt hole there for the alternator tension bracket or did you drill and tap it?

tantoy

Quote from: jwilly3879 on December 18, 2014, 03:13:58 PM
Nice looking engine. Was the bolt hole there for the alternator tension bracket or did you drill and tap it?
Some custom fab for the GM one wire alternator. I should add that I make a living in fabrication , NOT logging :D
1968 Garrett 20 Skidder
1991 Ford 1920 Tractor/Loader
2000 Takeuchi tb135 Excavator
Stihl 020, 041 Super, 084
Husqvarna 61, 181SE, 357XP

timberlinetree

At the end of the day we messed around with thermostats trying with/ without / backwards no luck! When I looked at the water pump it was spinning cw but I guess I should look at the crank to see witch way its spinning? Ugh I thought this was a simple fix :-\ thanks for the help.
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timberlinetree

Looked at the rotation and everything is spinning cw. Maybe I got the wrong pump off the internet. My question is should the pump be pumping up to thermostat housing or drawing down. The old pump was drawing down. New one not sure. When cold should I see a little circulation in the radiator? This seems to be pretty basic cooling system and can't figure it out. We REALLY need to get this straighten out we need wood! ANY help or ideas will be really appreciated. Thanks so much for your help.
I've met Vets who have lived but still lost their lives... Thank a Vet

Family man and loving it :)

David-L

Have you gotten to try a temp probe in the radiator after running a bit to see where it's at for temp. Any auto store will have them, what about the pot and boiling water to see if the thermostat working. Just not sure about the water pump. if the belt is attached and you had it off and the innards looked good and blading looked good it should work. Is your radiator fan blading blowing or sucking air to the motor, try a piece of cardboard to keep some heat in the engine compartment, i do this on my big tractor so it runs hot enough in colder weather. what about taking the therm out then flushing the engine out and then start from scratch. when i put my block heater in the stuff I could see in the top of the block behind the plate where the heater goes was nasty. Decided to flush and the stuff that came out was red rusty and like puke. motor runs at 180 within 15 minutes now and pretty much stays there. Good luck.
In two days from now, tomorrow will be yesterday.

ohiowoodchuck

In theory it should draw from the bottom up and when the thermostat opens coolant should flow through the top hose back into the radiator.
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