Timber frame pricing & options

milkie62 · November 24, 2014, 01:19:57 AM

My daughter wants a basic Timber frame home,no fancy beams or anything. 26' wide x 34' long.The walls 9 ' tall on the first floor and open cathedral on the front 16' depth.I think the spacing is 8' for the timbers.For the back part which will be 18' with exposed ceiling from the 1st floor.Dormers upstairs with std stick frame.The 2nd floor joists seem to be 3' on center.There is a fireplace in the house center which looks like it will be used as a support for the 18' center beam and joists running into it and bolted to it using 90 degree angle plates.We have seen his workshop and some of his work and it looks great.She was quoted $40k just for the Timber frame work and he said about 3-4 days on site install after all mortise & tenons cut back at the shop.Said that includes crane rental.I know my write up is very vague but how much could you expect for $40 k ?

My other thought was to go conventional stick and then mock-up beams using 1x & 2x material screwing then directly to studs and doubled up rafters and using a plasma cutter to cut a nice piece of plate at the roof/wall meeting and bolt it together to resemble a timber frame.

Thanks for any input. Ed

beenthere · November 24, 2014, 01:30:09 AM

Will she and her husband be doing any of the work? construction or otherwise?

Include windows and doors, roof, and walls, flooring ??

milkie62 · November 24, 2014, 02:18:45 AM

Yes ,we are doing all the other work.The price I quoted was just for the beams put up

beenthere · November 24, 2014, 09:31:29 AM

Get Member Jim Rogers to hold a class there....

timberwrestler · November 24, 2014, 02:41:34 PM

I cut frames for a living, and that seems pretty reasonable to me.

shinnlinger · November 24, 2014, 09:24:27 PM

I second that that is not an outlandish price. Timber frames are expensive but inspiring in so many ways. You could cut the timbers yourself if you want to save some green.

If you want cheap buy a used mobile home.

razor · November 24, 2014, 10:24:11 PM

I concur. Price seems fair

danreed76 · November 25, 2014, 08:10:01 AM

Based on the size you described, the price seems comparable to what we were quoted for "frame only". Especially if the raising is included, that seems very fair.

Dan

Brad_bb · November 25, 2014, 09:17:18 AM

That pricing doesn't sound out of the realm of reality. The devil is always in the details. What does "no fancy beams or anything" mean? I mean isn't that the point of a timberframe? What is fancy in your mind- regular planed new timbers versus reclaimed hand hewn? If that is what you want, do a few "fancy" beams. It will add a little material cost and labor cost for proper scribe layout, but the additional cost would likely be small compared to the whole project. It's easier to do it now than later after the project is finished.

milkie62 · November 25, 2014, 11:31:16 AM

What I meant by not fancy was the simple "A" with vertical posts and no collar tie if not needed. There is only one timber framer within distance to talk to. He seems to do excellent work from what I have seen. I built my own house but I am no carpenter. I have a carpenter we will hire as needed since he does not want to get tied up on an entire house. So we will have 3 or 4 capable people when he is here and then continue on building until he can get back. He will be the brains we provide the backs. She also wanted SIP panel roof with standing seam metal roof. Just trying to get some opinions on price. Actually we are trying to simulate the Lincoln Log home model home that is on their site. Thanks for input in advance.

Dave Shepard · November 25, 2014, 06:22:19 PM

I have a friend in Brunswick that is a good framer. Is that who you are dealing with?

milkie62 · November 25, 2014, 06:36:57 PM

Quote from: Dave Shepard on November 25, 2014, 06:22:19 PM
I have a friend in Brunswick that is a good framer. Is that who you are dealing with?

I live in Brunswick.No this one is in Bennington.I gave him a picture of the stairs I wanted,bought the materials and he did a great job at a very fair price.They were all done in Red Oak.Pricey.Plus a balcony railing with an Elk sillouette panel from J Dubbs in Washington state.

milkie62 · November 25, 2014, 06:40:06 PM

I know it will look great,but have also been thinking of going completely stick built and use rough cut 1x material and make boxed fake beams.

witterbound · November 25, 2014, 07:01:25 PM

If you are considering stick frame with trim to make look like a timberframe, then price that out. It won't be a true timberframe, it won't be as beautiful, but it will be much less expensive. In fact I think you can buy sips and do without the exterior 2x framing. A timber frame is expensive and so are sips. If the frame is going to cost 40k, I'd guess the extra cost of a timberframe is 20 to 30k. I built a timberframe, and wouldn't have it any other way. But if you are considering alternatives, then you've got to consider the extra cost of a frame.

Brad_bb · November 26, 2014, 10:35:38 AM

I don't know how close you need a timberframer to be, but there are lots on the east coast, and I'm sure a number of them in New York state. I know several in Maine and Mass. The question is what do they want? Do they want the feel of a real timberframe or not? Sips can be a very good choice. They go up very fast, everything is cut into them already for a fast close in and good fit. They seal and insulate very well. With stick framing, you could have less thermal insulation consistency. You have more labor cost, and the quality depends on the person doing it. You have to frame everything by hand, windows, doors etc- more time. It will take longer to frame and get it closed in with stick. Think also about the long term costs. Paying more up front could cost the same or less over time. With stick, will insulation settle over time(depending on what you use), or stay constant? Sips should stay constant. All things to consider.

logman · November 26, 2014, 12:41:32 PM

I'm just curious how you guys that feel like that is a fair price came to that conclusion. Is it because that is what everyone charges or did you price it out? If I priced out that frame using white pine timbers it would be around $16,000.00. I think timber frames are very overpriced for todays economy and if the demand for timber frames is ever going to grow the prices need to adjust. I have had two recent clients tell me they thought they would never be able to afford a timber frame until they found my website. Until prices come down to what working class people can afford there is never going to be a huge demand for frames. I have hesitated responding to this post because I don't like causing controversy but I feel like lower prices would help the whole timber frame market grow.

Peter Drouin · November 26, 2014, 07:13:56 PM

Small frame I bet less than 5k in beams. But not sure on how many beams.

razor · November 26, 2014, 09:31:36 PM

I have an spreadsheet I use to estimate frame costs. I just enter in the required fields and it spits out the price. With a 10% profit margin factored in. This is on top of the salary I pay myself for consultation, design, site visits, timber handling, wear and tear on my TWE, and the big one, SHOP TIME priced out at an hourly rate. Engineering fees, fabricated hardware if any, structural screws, transport, crane rental, crew wages, lunch, beers etc. etc.
And I haven't touched the cost of the timber yet. S4S WP graded #2 btr ranges from about $1.00 to $1.75 bd/ft depending on size and length. Slightly less for rough sawn. Delivery to my shop can be next to nothing or about $600, depends on the quantity I order.
So, based on all that, and on a frame of that size, and NOT doing the math. 40K seems in the ballpark.

logman · November 27, 2014, 09:19:23 AM

The price I gave was for the frame only, not the raising. I realize shops with employees have a lot of overhead but with about 7k for timbers I still think there is a lot of room to reduce prices. I think timber frames are thought of as a luxury and are charged as such. Those prices keep me busy.

Roger Nair · November 27, 2014, 08:28:04 PM

Milkie. My working life in construction began over 45 years ago, and I do not have a clear idea of what you or is it your daughter wants, so I could agree or disagree with every opinion so far ventured. My best advise is to get help developing a firm plan from someone qualified to do so. From that point onward you will be pricing a structure based on specs. If you get a plan from a timber framing company, you could be locked into a sole source scenario, so be sure that you can have the plan for the purposes of competitive bidding, otherwise you risk copyright violation complaint if you build from a propriety plan. Second, if this is your daughters house, she must call the shots, you are there, I hope, to help not direct avoid the ordeal of conflicting family dynamics.

Stick a Peg In Me · November 29, 2014, 08:22:40 PM

To add to this discussion, I've been getting quotes for a frame and have received apples to apples prices with a 100% difference. Not to disparage the craft at all, but a find a lot of the prices to be very much "because we can" prices and not in line with actual costs with a reasonable margin. A 10k board foot frame is what, 10-15k in lumber and ~200 joints including braces, I got quoted 80k for this. $300 per joint? I'm just shocked at the cost and have a hard time resolving the intrinsic value. I understand there's some non labor overhead, and there is or at least should be a lot of experience behind it. But it seems to be it's more of a "what the market will bear" type pricing strategy going on. Feel free to correct me as it's an outsiders perspective.

beenthere · November 29, 2014, 08:41:38 PM

If the timber framers are getting clients to buy with their "what the market will bare" strategy, and they are keeping busy... then why would they drop their price? Or why should they?
If there is a 100% difference, then seems the low price would get the job.
Just askin...

Stick
Welcome to the Forestry Forum

Stick a Peg In Me · November 29, 2014, 09:10:30 PM

Quote from: beenthere on November 29, 2014, 08:41:38 PM
If the timber framers are getting clients to buy with their "what the market will bare" strategy, and they are keeping busy... then why would they drop their price? Or why should they?
If there is a 100% difference, then seems the low price would get the job.
Just askin...

Stick
Welcome to the Forestry Forum

Didn't say they should drop their price, it just indicates a hugely untapped market. Supply and demand and a standard profit margin are two different things. Seems the current market has a huge margin and that was my point.