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blade lube antifreeze

Started by Josef, November 22, 2014, 09:59:22 PM

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Josef

I guess its that time of year again. Being new to band saw milling I'm finding that keeping the blade lube thawed is a challenge at 15 degrees. For now I'm using a reservoir with gravity feed drip nozzle, and am experimenting with different antifreeze methods. The windshield washer solution in gallon jugs works but still needs pinesol added for pine pitch. The RV antifreeze diluted works well too, but both of these have colorants added and I wonder about that when used on logs destined for the furniture worker as well as how the chemicals involved will affect final finish application.

As I said I'm new to this so I did a search of the forum and gleaned much about the antifreeze properties of both of these options but not much about the impact of the chemicals involved beyond their ability to prevent the lube from freezing.

My question is this, another option would be the dilution of the lube with either ethanol or methanol. In their pure forms the first quite expensive but safe, the latter quite toxic but cheap. Either will protect to about 0 to 5 degrees at a 30% solution, either will have a flash point above 80 degrees at that solution so winter use would not create a problem with flamability from vaporization in the reservoir. Both are clear liquids, both will vaporize leaving little trace on the wood.

For most days a 10% solution will be adequate, giving protection to about 20 degrees and raising the flash point to over 130 degrees.

I can purchase either and want to experiment with these but thought I'd ask here first and see if anyone had tried and could offer advice. As always I'm grateful for all the knowledge I've gained from reading this forum over the years, and very appreciative that you all share this knowledge so freely.
In my house I'm the boss, I know this because my wife said so, I only hope she doesn't change her mind!

New to me Timber Harvester that I'm learning to operate, been building a home built mill for a while, should be ready to make sawdust with it someday if I ever quit "modifying" the design.

bandmiller2

Josef, methanol is the active ingredient in WW fluid along with a minor amount of soap and pretty blue color. Any methanol you add will DanG soon evaporate. Probibly pinesol and methanol would do as well as any in cold weather. I really can't say as water based lubes have never touched my bands. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Nate379

We usually just run it dry.  Woodmizer Lt40

drobertson

We have had temps as low as 8° thus far this year, I had a mix of 1 gallon water, bout 1-1/2 cups pin-sol and a gallon of -20 ww fluid.  no freezing, the pitch removal is good.  I normally use straight -20 ww fluid, when the temps start holding below freezing,  and for the most part a cup or so of pin-sol,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Josef

Interesting that the antifreeze part of the WW solution is methanol. One of the things that piqued my concern was the pretty blue dye in the WW solution. Does it stain the pine boards at all? The -20 blue jugs are $2 a gallon on sale, straight methanol from the racing shop is about $5 a gallon and will mix to make 10 gallons of antifreeze lubricant.

I have a yard full of assorted pine logs that I am starting to saw, it's my training program to get used to using my new Timber Harvester (well, new to me anyway). It has a steel tube reservoir with welded pipe fittings and I'm a bit paranoid about it possibly freezing.

Thanks for the responses and the information.
Joe
In my house I'm the boss, I know this because my wife said so, I only hope she doesn't change her mind!

New to me Timber Harvester that I'm learning to operate, been building a home built mill for a while, should be ready to make sawdust with it someday if I ever quit "modifying" the design.

Magicman

There are only a few drops of dye in WW solution and it will not stain your lumber.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

bandmiller2

Josef, I've never heard of WW fluid staining, if your concerned dump some on scrap and check, you use the least concentration you can. You can buy WW concentrate and mix according to temp. Some here use petroleum lube in the cold weather then back to soap in the summer. I use wick applied ATF summer and winter. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Josef

Well, after using the WW solution it doesn't appear to stain at all, even using it straight from the jug with pinesol added, so my concern was unfounded (as many of you pointed out). The weather here is a bit erratic, in the teens for several days last week and will be over 70 today with 50mph gusts. That shot of freezing weather caught me off guard last week, I plan to take the steel tube reservoir out of service in the spring, can't remove it as its structural to the carriage.

I'll research the ATF and wick possibility over the winter, just did a search of the forum and came up with a bit of reading, I'm sure I'll have questions for you Frank C.

Had my first paying customer last week, resawing salvaged white oak barn beams for flooring, no lube, went thru 4 bands in 1000 bf, that stuff sure dulls bands quick. Now I get to go learn how to use my cats claw sharpener and setter, this sure is fun. Thanks for the responses.
In my house I'm the boss, I know this because my wife said so, I only hope she doesn't change her mind!

New to me Timber Harvester that I'm learning to operate, been building a home built mill for a while, should be ready to make sawdust with it someday if I ever quit "modifying" the design.

woodjunky

Hello. I am going to do some winter milling this year. The Hud-son dealer said the purple deep freeze washer fluid has a higher alcohol content. and it softens and chews up the rubber on the band wheels.... Said not to use it.

So any alternative to alcohol? And anybody here able to refute his claims? Maybe Hud-son uses different rubber on the wheels?

beenthere

What does the Hud-son dealer recommend?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

terrifictimbersllc

Nothing wrong with straight -20 WWF.  Add some pinesol to it if any buildup.  Add some water if you want to conserve it.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

woodjunky

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on November 24, 2014, 03:30:04 PM
Nothing wrong with straight -20 WWF.  Add some pinesol to it if any buildup.  Add some water if you want to conserve it.
I think he recommended I not mill in the winter, and bring the mill back in good condition when I get a bigger one:) He said the blue was ok but the low temp purple had alcohol so dont use it..... but the blue has alcohol too, right?
I guess i will just use blue, and quit if it freezes. lol

He mentioned a little dish soap too at one point... Is that for the buildup you think, or for freezing at slightly lower temp maybe?

red oaks lumber

we use -20 ww fluid at the end of the day we drain the line and take the jug. i don't run soap in the winter,frozen logs dont create blade buildup.
if you want to still saw after your fluid freezes up, your tougher than i . :)
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

Magicman

WM recommends using WW fluid which is good enough for me.  I have never seen any affect on the bandwheel belts.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

tule peak timber

We did not get a response from WM Indiana . WM California said to use alcohol and they would back the warranty on my new mill with the use of alcohol in the Lubemizer system. Good luck .....Rob   
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

thecfarm

I know I don't saw alot,but 10 years of using half diesel and bar and chain oil at just a DRIP every few SECONDS,my belts are doing fine.  ;D
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

prittgers

We work in pretty cold temps up north here, but when lube is needed we use the Woodmizer ADD-1 with WW antifreeze.  The silicone in the mixture seems to work good at bonding with the blade surface.  It's pretty slippery. Feels like glass! 

My mill has an electric pump for the lube so I'm careful not to allow the mixture to freeze.

I quit using P-Sol when it became evident that it wouldn't take the pitch off of my hands.  We got to thinking that it probably is like using soap and water to wash the pitch off of the blade. 

IT's an old, old debate.  but it you email me I'll try to get you a sample and you can try it out yourself.  If you like it - great!  If not nobody would be offended.
Parker Rittgers
Professional Sawyer, Retired, well, not really !
WoodMizer Alaska | 907.360.2497 cell 336.5143 office BevelSider.com ? Everything BevelSider
907.336.5143
prittgers@aksamill.com

Dave Shepard

I use the -20 WW in the winter as well. Six gallons for $9.99 at BJ's.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

tule peak timber

I think I've read everything on this site regarding this subject....I'm still reading. I have some concerns about fire /culpability/negligence when using diesel as the lube , yet I use diesel sometimes indoors on other bandsaws .WM says NO....Rob
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

Banjo picker

Cooks says yes, but then they have solid steel wheels..I use straight diesel.  My tank is made into the machine as is Josef's ...If the diesel gels its too cold for my blood anyway.  Banjo
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

Sixacresand

When is going to be freezing, I blow/drain the water solution from the tubes running through the mill and put the lube tank inside the house.   Sometimes I just pour everything out of the tank. 
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

Foxtrapper

Quote from: Sixacresand on November 30, 2014, 09:08:00 AM
When is going to be freezing, I blow/drain the water solution from the tubes running through the mill and put the lube tank inside the house.   Sometimes I just pour everything out of the tank.

Me too, but we don't have steel tanks as resivors like timber harvester does.  I was told to use windshield washer fluid as lube.  I did for the first tank, then went to straight water with some dish soap in it.  I bring my jug in at the end of the day, so it won't freeze.
2014 WoodMizer LT28

Magicman

I operate and purge the LubeMizer lube system with at least a 0° solution.  I treat the jugs so that they will withstand 0° which is much lower that we will ever have.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Chuck White

I've been caught a few times, but at the end of the day, when the weather starts getting cold, I disconnect the line from the lube jug and blow all of the mix out of the line, then I stand the lube jug up and open the valve so that doesn't freeze either.

~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

sparks

Here's the formula for WW solvent. Make sure it is the antifreeze type.
\"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.\" Abraham Lincoln

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