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Perfect shop

Started by shortlogger, November 22, 2014, 01:42:50 PM

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shortlogger

I'm getting my stuff together to build a new shop and it's been my experience in the past when I build something I always see where I could had done it better when it's finished . So I'm looking to glean a little advice from the guys who are already in their shop and see where they would make changes given the chance .
I'm looking at going with a 26x36 on a slab with 10' 2x6 walls . It will be mostly for wood work but I will also need room to pull a tractor or truck inside for repairs ( maybe not too often ) does that sound big enough ? Any good advice on layout or setup ?
1 Corinthians 3:7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase . "NKJV"

mesquite buckeye

What machines will you have in there and will they be shuffled to do work or would you want them all available all the time? How much lumber will you store inside?

How much of a packrat are you and how much stuff is just going to "end up" in there? Don't ask how I know this.

I'm sure I didn't think of something. That is another way the space fills up... :-\
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Den-Den

I think the "perfect" shop is one that is paid for and gets used.

A few suggestions:
*  Plenty of outlets, located slightly more than 4 ft above the floor.  A sheet of plywood or MDF will not cover them up.

*  An I-beam to run a trolley mounted chain hoist on; will help unload heavy tools

*  A door wide (and tall) enough to get your tractor in.

*  Electrical service bigger than you need right now; will save big bucks later when you need to add power for a new tool.
You may think that you can or may think you can't; either way, you are right.

red oaks lumber

my cabinet shop at home is 32 x 64 10' walls, wish it was alot bigger :)
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

thecfarm

I would go up with cement or blocks on the sides. This way the water won't be splashing up on the siding from the rain.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

scsmith42

Have a separate room for storage and supplies that is easily accessed from the main shop.  Keep the shop space dedicated for tools and work space, and install both heating and air conditioning.

Set your compressor up outside of the main shop for noise control.  Same thing with your dust collection system.

Allow plenty of room to maneuver around equipment.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Don_Papenburg

Add  10 or 20 foot to the length if you plan to pull the truck or tractor in for repairs.  Put a wall between the repair  and wood shop
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

whiskers

my 30x40 has 10' walls, the next one will have 12'. Then i 'll say, should have
went 14'.https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/undecided.gif
many irons in the fire.........

VTwoodworker

I do not have the perfect shop mostly because it is too small.  I am a hobby woodworker and when I originally built my shop I was into mostly small newer machines.  Since then I have been working on upgrading my machines by replacing them by old bigger machines.  My shop is 22'x24 and it was all I could afford at the time.  I really wish that it was twice as long.  I do not like mixing parking or mechanical with the wood shop so I made the doors small enough so I could not get riding mowers etc into the shop.

I vaulted the ceiling to 12' in the center.  This is much better than 10' when swinging plywood.  I designed the shop to have the table saw in the center and put dust collection and power in the floor to the tablesaw.  I wish I had spent the time and money to put more dust collection in the concrete floor.  I have insulated it really well so I heat it in the winter full time so the machines and supplies do not freeze.  I am also glad that I put lots of windows in the shop as well.

If you are limited in what you can build now, I suggest that you situate the shop better than I did so you could add space in the future.  I don'tthink you can have too much space so build what you can but build it well.  I suggest at least 100 AMP panel and place plenty of outlets.  My perfect workshop would have three phase, which I hope to acheive soon with a phase converter.

If possible situate far enough from the house or neighbors so you can make noise when you want. 

Good luck on the quest for the perfect workshop.

Wayne

shortlogger

I like all the ideas so far they are pretty much Where I was going already that confirms them for me .I will have a table saw , band saw , joiner , planer and radial arm saw and who knows later . I already have a lumber barn and a storage building near where the shop will be . It sounds like I might want to think about going a little longer , I might think more about going 50' or so, keep the ideas coming .
Thanks guys .
1 Corinthians 3:7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase . "NKJV"

shortlogger

I would love three phase I may try to come up with a big motor from work and build a rotory phase converter that would give me more options on buying tools .
1 Corinthians 3:7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase . "NKJV"

Don_Papenburg

A shop ,like a machine shed wider is better . You can add length relatively easy . You need space so you are not bumping into machines as you walk around .
My shop now is long enough to run 24' stick through the planer but to tight to walk back past the jointer with them .  It looked huge when it was empty and it was twice the size of my other "shop" . 
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

Larry

With a floating slab use #4 rebar and don't even think about fiber or screen.  The rebar will keep it from moving when it cracks.

Heat and air conditioning...especially air conditioning are nice.  It can be done cheaply with good insulation.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

redprospector

My last wood shop was 40' x 50'. It had plenty of room...for about a month, then I was trying to figure out how to add on to it.  :D
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

starbits

One thing I have considered for my next shop is to put 3/4" pvc in the concrete spaced side to side every 5 feet.   Then when I move machines or add a new one it is a simple matter of running a chalk line to find the closest pvc point and drill a hole through the concrete to the pvc pipe.   Then run the wires to one side to a trough and down the trough to the breaker box.   Power close by no matter where the machines are or how many you accumulate and no power cords dangling from the ceiling or running underfoot.

Starbits

hackberry jake

I like the idea of running pvc in the concrete. I have power ran to a lot of my machines overhead. Which is way better than tripping over extension cords but still looks cluttered and makes it harder to swing lumber around. Mine is an insulated 24x40 and if I had it to do over again it wouldve been at least a 30x50. A wood stove and a wood shop go together like peas and carrots. Most of what I heat my shop with is cut-offs and miscellaneous scrap from woodworking. I have one garage door on each 24" wall. This is nice when it's hot out because I can open both doors and get a breeze through the shop. My biggest tips would be plenty of lights, plenty of outlets (240 volt outlets as well), plenty of insulation, and plenty of room.
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

SawyerBrown

When I start something like this, I lay it out on graph paper, using little strips of paper/cardboard to represent the area required for given machines (or furniture or whatever).  For example, your table saw might require 8' of width and 10-12' on both ends (depending on how long of boards you think you might be cutting), so make sure you've got that much room allocated; or can move it where you need it if necessary.  Lay out all your machines to make sure they all fit, including additions/upgrades later. 

I think in my ideal shop the bigger/stationary machines would line the walls (where you have easy access to power and vac system), and the smaller tools and work space in the middle.  Cabinet counter tops also make great off-feed tables if built at the right height and maximize the use of space.

Also, have you thought about a "clean room" for staining/finishing while you're creating sawdust elsewhere?

Just some thoughts ...
Pete Brown, Saw It There LLC.  Wood-mizer LT35HDG25, Farmall 'M', 16' trailer.  Custom sawing only (at this time).  Long-time woodworker ... short-time sawyer!

clww

I would add don't skimp on plenty of overhead lighting. Painting the walls white helps out, too.
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

mesquite buckeye

Quote from: Larry on November 23, 2014, 08:00:28 PM
With a floating slab use #4 rebar and don't even think about fiber or screen.  The rebar will keep it from moving when it cracks.

Heat and air conditioning...especially air conditioning are nice.  It can be done cheaply with good insulation.

Remesh is also a good solution and easier to lay out. 1/4" rods on a 4" spacing are around $70 for a 7 X 20 sheet. This stuff makes a really strong concrete.
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

woodweasel

Heres mine, just got it dried in. 42'x50', with 8'x12' on back side for head. 30'x50' enclosed, with 12' shed. I'm wiring it for 200 amp service smiley_beertoast

  

  

  

  

 

mikeb1079

im currently setting up shop in the neighbors barn, it's 28' x 32' w/ 10' ceilings.  i plan on doing exactly what you described:  setting up a woodshop but with a bay for working on the mill and vehicles.  i shouldn't complain but i will:  it's too small.   :D
that's why you must play di drum...to blow the big guys mind!
homebuilt 16hp mill
99 wm superhydraulic w/42hp kubota

bigred1951

my stepdads garage is 50'x100' so pretty big but they fill up with stuff fast. Still have plenty of walking room and some spare space here and there. Im not sure on the ceiling height tho, it does have electric in it but the original guy who owned the property and built it just put an underground line running from the house so if you try to run a table saw or anything to much in the shop it likes to blow fuses and such.

SawyerBrown

I think that's a Murphy's Law thing: no matter how big you build it, you'll find a way to fill it up with more stuff.  Especially if you're a pack rat and can't stand to throw anything away.  SawyerBrown's New Year's resolution: get rid of everything that hasn't been used in 2 years or more.  That includes an old 1982 Honda CB900 Custom, a Cub Cadet mower, and a Bachtold weed mower -- get 'em running and get rid of 'em!  Mrs SawyerBrown would call that "a good start".   :D
Pete Brown, Saw It There LLC.  Wood-mizer LT35HDG25, Farmall 'M', 16' trailer.  Custom sawing only (at this time).  Long-time woodworker ... short-time sawyer!

MattJ

One comment I would add is that there is no such thing as the perfect shop.  As soon as I get my next "perfect" layout done I see something I want to change. 

That being said, flexible utilities as a few people mentioned is great.  I ran my electrical around the perimeter using wiremold.  It's cheaper than conduit, robust (metal) and you can move outlets very easily and change service as needed.  The size I used was around 2"x4" in cross section and easily handled five or more circuits of sheathed wire.

I also agree on white paint.  I used exterior high gloss white superpaint to make it easy to clean or wipe down. 

If I had to do it over I would add a beam overtop where I could have a hoist from.  That would be helpful for heavy projects or servicing the tractor, etc.

I also made my counters around the shop cantilevered (i.e. brackets connected to studs, no legs) which makes it easier to store items under the counters and also to sweep up under them.

Last I would make it with the ability to get lots of natural light.  Mine is a 2-car garage and with the door closed its dark. 

Hope this helps

mesquite buckeye

How about a gantry crane? Then you can move equipment and any heavy stuff any time anywhere you want. ;D
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

flatrock58

I like all the ideas since I am planning my new shop.  Please add some pictures of your shops too.
2001 LT40 Super Kubota 42
6' extension
resaw attachment
CBN Sharpener
Cooks Dual Tooth Setter
Solar Kiln

johnnyllama

  As has been said, it's never big enough. Mines 40 x 60, 12' ceilings and it's too small. It depends on what your plans are though. I build custom kitchen cabinetry and furniture for a living so I need a lot of space. I could double the size and still eventually want more. We have a 24" planer, 2 table saws, 2 drill presses, a line boring machine, cutoff saw, shaper, wide belt sander, drum sander, lathe, etc. I put as many tools on wheels as possible. Our work/assembly tables have drawer space underneath and are also moveable. We are gradually closing in all open shelf space behind doors so dust is easier to control. A separate finish room is a nice option if you can. The tall ceilings let us run a 2' deep shelf at 9' all along one 60' wall for seldom used stuff. A tall plywood rack has about 10 dividers to store assorted sheet goods, and 42" deep pallet racking for storing hardwoods. I've got infloor radiant heat with an outdoor boiler, and a phase converter for 3 phase. White painted walls on most areas with a white steel liner panel ceiling and florescent lighting keep it pretty bright. Good luck!

  

  

  

 
Turner Bandmill, NH35 tractor, Stihl & Husky misc. saws, Mini-excavator, 24" planer, 8" jointer, tilting shaper, lathe, sliding table saw, widebelt sander, Beautiful hardworking wife, 2 dogs, 2 cats, 23 llamas in training to pull logs!!!

flatrock58

Nice Shop johnnyllama.  I was thinking I could build a 40x 60 with 16' sheds on either side and be happy.  Since I am more in the hobby woodworking and sawmilling that might work for now.  The problem is I will have to buy lots more equipment to fill it up!
2001 LT40 Super Kubota 42
6' extension
resaw attachment
CBN Sharpener
Cooks Dual Tooth Setter
Solar Kiln

ScottAR

Be sure to have a bathroom.  Since we don't heat the shop all the time we put up shelves in the bathroom  to put paint and such with a small heater.   
Scott
"There is much that I need to do, even more that I want to do, and even less that I can do."
[Magicman]

hackberry jake

Mmmm sweet table saws Johnnyllama. What kind is the second one with the slider?
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

Brad_bb

Quote from: scsmith42 on November 22, 2014, 05:52:49 PM
Have a separate room for storage and supplies that is easily accessed from the main shop.  Keep the shop space dedicated for tools and work space, and install both heating and air conditioning.

Set your compressor up outside of the main shop for noise control.  Same thing with your dust collection system.

Allow plenty of room to maneuver around equipment.

Spot on SCsmith42!  I'm about to build a new shop.  My woodworking room is going to be 36wide X 26 long.  The size really depends on what you plan to be doing.  If you're doing secondary work on long stock, more length would be in order.  One thing you can plan is a concrete apron or driveway in front of the door so that you can move a machine outside to do really long stuff.    At the size the original poster mentioned, I would not want to have to work on a vehicle in that space.  If that is needed, add more length.

I've found that (besides the compressor and dust collection being outside of the workspace), the table saw should go in the center of the room.  I find that is the first station for most projects and is used on virtually all projects.  Pivoting to the right or left, depending on what you prefer, should be your woodworking bench/assembly table.  Those are the two stations I work at most, so I want just a short pivot between them.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

johnnyllama

Jake, that's an older Mini-Max with a 52" crosscut capability. I'd love a full sized slider but until we add on just not enough room. Got this one on Craig's List recently, it's in great shape but I'm building a new, longer crosscut fence for it, with flip stops. Then I'll probably part with the Powermatic 68 even though it's a good saw. My wife says if I had a 20,000sq.ft. shop I'd still have too many tools to fit!
Turner Bandmill, NH35 tractor, Stihl & Husky misc. saws, Mini-excavator, 24" planer, 8" jointer, tilting shaper, lathe, sliding table saw, widebelt sander, Beautiful hardworking wife, 2 dogs, 2 cats, 23 llamas in training to pull logs!!!

hackberry jake

I know exactly what you mean. I think the closest I will ever get to a slider is the crosscut sled  :-\
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: hackberry jake on February 18, 2015, 03:41:19 PM
I think the closest I will ever get to a slider is the crosscut sled  :-\

I know one that walks and talks.  :D
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Just Me

Quote from: johnnyllama on February 16, 2015, 08:36:46 PM
Jake, that's an older Mini-Max with a 52" crosscut capability. I'd love a full sized slider but until we add on just not enough room. Got this one on Craig's List recently, it's in great shape but I'm building a new, longer crosscut fence for it, with flip stops. Then I'll probably part with the Powermatic 68 even though it's a good saw. My wife says if I had a 20,000sq.ft. shop I'd still have too many tools to fit!

I have a variation of that same MiniMax that I bought new, it has been an awesome saw for twenty years. So versatile! When I downsized I had an Altendorf slider, but had no place for it, kept a Powermatic 66 and the Minimax.

I went from 4700 ft to a three car garage, lots of stuff had to go away. I sold the Altendorf, 36" Oliver,  12" Porter Jointer, 52" Timesavers wide belt. I am learning new lessons on how to be efficient with space. I have a 48x36 pole barn I am going to move into when I get enough money ahead to finish it, but the lessons I am learning in the small shop will help when I get out there as I will still be working in about a third of the space compared to the old shop.

I have the Minimax, a SCM 520 planer, MiniMax 12"jointer, 20" bandsaw and two large benches stuffed in the three car garage and rotate other tools out of the barn as I need them. I have a panel router in the basement, which makes my wife real happy when I use that. :-\

One thing I really hate about the small spavce is the mess a router makes. I do a lot of curved work and use a router a lot. In my old shop I had a big bench in the middle of the room and when I was done I just swept up. In the garage every time I route something it throws shavings from corner to corner so I can see the need for the enclosed tool room in the new shop.

The thing I miss the most is not having the room to have three or four projects going on at one time. I like to be able to walk away from something I am stumped on and work on something else while I ponder. Also not having a dedicated finish area is a pain in the tush, especially in the winter when outside is not an option.

I think the only way you could ever achieve the perfect shop is if you are doing the same thing all the time. My shop is not that way, its always something different.

sawguy21

'I do not like mixing parking or mechanical with the wood shop so I made the doors small enough so I could not get riding mowers etc into the shop.'  :D :D I would be guilty of that. We are moving in April, I am going to have a shop!!! It will be two bays of a three bay garage but that is a lot more than the 12x16 garden shed I have now. I will have to be careful though, I will be like you guys and fill it fast.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

ely

dad has just this weekend got his 30 x 50 ready for spray foam... it is one of the vehicle/machine/wood shop. I know my dad and how he works, so I am a bit apprehensive about putting it all together. I will give it a try until I catch someone laying a greasy bearing on my woodworking tools. at that time I will build me a wood shop.

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