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Ambrosia Maple

Started by YellowHammer, November 16, 2014, 08:11:25 PM

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YellowHammer

After a little time off, I got back to sawing again and was halfway through a load of Ambrosia (wormy) Maple and thought I'd snap this picture.  I always like sawing this stuff, it sells real well, and the striking colors and pattern made up for the nasty, cold rainy day.
YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Peter Drouin

Will it change the color after going in the kiln?
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

cutterboy

WOW! That log is loaded with it. I see it in red maple sometimes, but never as much as that.
To underestimate old men and old machines is the folly of youth. Frank C.

Swatson

That is a nice looking log.  Hope it fetches a good price for you.
I cant figure out which one I like better: working with wood or making the tools to work with wood.

drobertson

Absolutely stunning contrast,  and I knew you would be back soon!  glad to see it! 8)
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

red

Such a shame that log is spoiled
You can throw them nasty boards on my firewood pile
I don't want you to hurt your new hip
Just trying to help you out . . .
Honor the Fallen Thank the Living

Tree Dan

Quote from: Peter Drouin on November 16, 2014, 08:20:11 PM
Will it change the color after going in the kiln?

No...Our KD wormy looks just like that.
Wood Mizer LT40HD, Kubota KX71, New Holland LS150, Case TR270
6400 John Deere/with loader,General 20" planer, Stihl 880, Stihl 361, Dolmar 460, Husqvarna 50  and a few shovels,
60" and 30" Log Rite cant hooks, 2 home built Tree Spades, Homemade log splitter

WDH

WOW!!!!!!

WOW!!!!!!!!!

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

YellowHammer

Quote from: Peter Drouin on November 16, 2014, 08:20:11 PM
Will it change the color after going in the kiln?
Only if I screw it up.  Here's some I did a few months ago. 
YH
   
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

5quarter

and curly figure to boot! That stuff is sweeter that honey on a sugar plum! I'll be sending my beetles down your way to learn how do the ambrosia thing the right way.  ;) :D
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

SwampDonkey

Nice! If you have a market for it, it can be like gold. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

WDH

DanG....you never said that you have some curly ambrosia maple  8).
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

mesquite buckeye

Hope it doesn't twist with that spiral grain. :(

Super cool if it works. ;D 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) :snowball:
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

SwampDonkey

curly grain in maple and yellow birch is prized stuff. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

WDH

Sell me the curly stuff, please  ;D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Magicman

Wild Bill might have some he will sell you.   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

WDH

 :D :D

It ain't his no more. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

YellowHammer

I have to admit, I really like working with this wood.  It saws very fast, yield is high, logs are big with minimal heart check, and the boards are usually well behaved and dry straight.  There is very little waste. Sticker stain is a problem with this species, and we lost some money with zebra striped boards, but once we broke the code on that, we can crank out a kiln load in a week with no stain at all.  I probably sell 3 or 4 times as much of this as clear, unmarked maple.  When we get a few logs in, we trim them to length and sell the sealed cut offs to wood turners; this is a favorite for them, and very little goes into the burn pile.  We get some with really nice patterns and colors, too.


This is us getting the logs ready to saw, bucking them up and Anchorsealing the ends on a cold day as it was getting dark.

YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

customsawyer

That is some mighty fine ambrosia maple.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

FarmingSawyer

Wow! I don't think there is anything quite like that up here in Maine! Beautiful! I've sawn some DanG fine curly maple, but none with anything near that amount of stripe. Occasionally mineral stain will be strong in areas, which is always interesting.

Is there any way to tell from the outside of the log whether the Ambrosia will be inside? Or can you tell from the ends? A lot of big maples came down in a recent storm and I'm trying to get people to saw them up rather than turn them into mulch......
Thomas 8020, Stihl 039, Stihl 036, Homelite Super EZ, Case 385, Team of Drafts

WDH

Ambrosia is more commonly found in soft maple, i.e. red maple, Acer rubrum, than in sugar maple. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

xlogger

YH. what did you do to stop the sticker stain with your stickers? I'm now sawing red cedar for my stickers, but I just air now. Hope to build a solar kiln next year.
Timberking 2000, Turbo slabber Mill, 584 Case, Bobcat 773, solar kiln, Nyle L-53 DH kiln

WDH

xlogger,

Airflow, airflow, airflow.  The air must be moving immediately after sawing.  Fans are a must if it is even close to hot and humid.   
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

flatrock58

Nice looking Maple.  I cut an old half rotten maple last week and got some nice boards.  Not sure what I will make with them.




  

 
2001 LT40 Super Kubota 42
6' extension
resaw attachment
CBN Sharpener
Cooks Dual Tooth Setter
Solar Kiln

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

YellowHammer

Flatrock58, that's some nice maple. 

Quote from: xlogger on November 18, 2014, 05:47:48 PM
YH. what did you do to stop the sticker stain with your stickers? I'm now sawing red cedar for my stickers, but I just air now. Hope to build a solar kiln next year.
Quote from: WDH on November 18, 2014, 08:14:35 PM
xlogger,
Airflow, airflow, airflow.  The air must be moving immediately after sawing.  Fans are a must if it is even close to hot and humid.   
WDH is 100% on the money.   smiley_thumbsup

I have run some experiments and determined that the greatest chance of sticker stain in red maple occurs in the first couple hours after sawing and tapers off after a couple weeks.  Surface moisture and high temperatures on the boards greatly increases sticker stain potential and everything must be done to dry it immediately and keep it cool, even though the board itself still has moisture in it.  In addition to accelerated drying, lots of air blowing over the stack causes evaporative cooling and greatly reduces surface temperatures, especially in the warmer months.
So I do several things specific to ambrosia maple that I don't necessarily do with other species due to its tendency to deep stain to the point where it won't plane out and the wood is ruined.  Here's what I do:
1.  Big fans running on high for about two weeks, as soon as the wood is sawn. Butt the fans right up to the stacks and get the air moving over them.  I wont even saw red maple unless I have some fans ready and waiting.


2. "H" stickers to minimize surface contact with wood.
 
3.  I don't spray these boards with insecticide because it wets the boards under the stickers and I want their surfaces dry immediately.  I sterilize the wood later in the kiln.
4.  I spread the boards liberally out in the lumber stack, putting at least a half an inch between edges.  I want the air moving vertically in the stack as well as horizontally.  I don't want any dead spots.
5.  Every couple days, use a hammer to move a few sample stickers in the stack and see if any stain is forming under them.  If it starts to show, I beat all the stickers about an inch to the side to let the wood under them dry out.

If you go to all this trouble, it will be worth it as the boards will dry without any sticker stain at all, and will be bright with no gray or fade. I sell the ambrosia maple starting at $4 per bdft, so a kiln load represents a significant profit and discovering a load of sticker stain is the start of a very bad day.

Also, if these fans are used in this method with green oaks and other similar species, the boards will crack and be ruined.  The air velocity is too high and the wood will dry too fast. 
YH










   
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

flatrock58

Yellowhammer

Do you have to keep air flow on the maple even with cold temperatures?

thanks,
Steve
2001 LT40 Super Kubota 42
6' extension
resaw attachment
CBN Sharpener
Cooks Dual Tooth Setter
Solar Kiln

YellowHammer

Quote from: flatrock58 on November 18, 2014, 11:26:05 PM
Yellowhammer
Do you have to keep air flow on the maple even with cold temperatures?
I do, it's cheap insurance because even though the risk of sticker stain is greatly reduced in cold weather, I did stain some last winter with no fans running, so now I run them 24/7 and let the fans rapidly dry the wood to a point where it likely won't stain if I get a warm damp spell.  A fan's drying effectivness is proportional to the wetness of the wood, so the wetter the wood, the better the fan's high velocity airflow over the wood removes moisture.  That's why after a couple weeks I remove the fans or move them to a different stack because the wood is dry enough where the fans lose their effectiveness and the maple is out of the danger zone as fast as possible.
Normally, two barrel fans will cover 1200 Bdft of lumber, 600 Bdft on the suction side, 600 Bdft on the exhaust. 
YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

xlogger

I slab up a red maple log about 5-6 weeks ago into 2" slabs. I just put them under a shed with stickers no fan. I'll have to see how they turn out. I don't do much volume here, wonder if I do another maple and stood it up on edge under the shed how would that work?
Timberking 2000, Turbo slabber Mill, 584 Case, Bobcat 773, solar kiln, Nyle L-53 DH kiln

Seaman

Thanks WDH and YH for the great tips !
XLOGGER, I stood up maple in my shop to dry, it cupped and bowed. Your mileage may vary.
Frank
Lucas dedicated slabber
Woodmizer LT40HD
John Deere 5310 W/ FEL
Semper Fi

WDH

My experience is that slabs have to be dried in a herd.  A single slab standing under a shed is totally exposed on all sides and can dry too fast for its thickness.  The thicker the slab, the worse the outcome.  I have found that it is best to sandwich the slab with stickers under two layers of boards, one on bottom and one on top of the slab, or I sticker a number of slabs together and then cover the top layer with stickers and another layer of other, non-slab, boards.  This helps keeps the drying under better control.  The moisture evaporating from the slabs keeps the neighbors from drying too fast. 

There is nothing fast about drying thick lumber using conventional processes.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

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