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Amateur seeking advice. Cutting a few Walnut trees.

Started by strunk57, November 15, 2014, 01:15:56 PM

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strunk57

Hello All. Been a while since I have been on, been busy with sawmilling and cutting a few trees here and there.

Anyway I have agreed to cut and sell around 25 good Walnut trees for a guy I know. I plan on just dragging them to a flat and then having several companies come to give bids on them.

My question is, should I have anything in writing about the cutting agreement before I get started? I am not thinking there is much maybe around 8-10Mbf. Any other aspects I should know would be greatly appreciated.
99 timberking b-20. John deere 450c loader. 79 Chevy c-60 95 GMC 2500, Craftsman tablesaw, Dewalt 735 13" planer, stihl ms-290 Stihl 029, Husqvarna 394xp, dewalt router & table, various sanders/hand tools.

beenthere

Where is your money coming from?  The cutting? the "dragging" ?  The selling ??

What will be your investment besides your time?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

strunk57

I am cutting, skidding, selling.

My only investments will be a new saw, fuel, oil, and labor.
99 timberking b-20. John deere 450c loader. 79 Chevy c-60 95 GMC 2500, Craftsman tablesaw, Dewalt 735 13" planer, stihl ms-290 Stihl 029, Husqvarna 394xp, dewalt router & table, various sanders/hand tools.

furltech

It would be easier getting some paper work of some sort done beforehand ,rather than the paper work that might come after if there was a problem .

beenthere

QuoteI am cutting, skidding, selling.

Then no money in the pocket until after the selling is done?

No investment in equipment, so you must be using someone else's ?

From another thread, what happens if the landowner is not happy and kicks you off after you have most of the logs pulled out in the flat (I assume that is his property) ? Maybe he/she doesn't like something happening, like possibly the barked/scraped up leave trees and you (with no contract) have no ownership of the logs and they kick you out.

Just seems like you are leaving a lot up to chance, and I don't want to see you left holding a bag of bills and lose your investment.

Also, be sure to have a log buyer lined up to at least look over your logs for sale, as finding one who will buy them may be a problem for you. And knowing you have to sell those logs puts you on the short end of making a deal, and they may take every bit advantage they can over your situation.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

strunk57

The only equipment i will have to hire is a loader to come load the logs after all the bids are given, I already have that worked out. The ground is good enough for a tractor to do everything else. I already have at least 3 guys that will come bid after i get them cut.

I was just kinda wondering what kind of situations might come up, or if there were anything that should be done no matter what.
99 timberking b-20. John deere 450c loader. 79 Chevy c-60 95 GMC 2500, Craftsman tablesaw, Dewalt 735 13" planer, stihl ms-290 Stihl 029, Husqvarna 394xp, dewalt router & table, various sanders/hand tools.

Ohio_Bill

The sapwood of walnut is very strong and if you have never cut walnut before it is very eazy to split a but log .  Dont ask me how i know that. 8)
Bill
USAF Veteran  C141 Loadmaster
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WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

dgdrls

Quote from: strunk57 on November 15, 2014, 05:38:01 PM
The only equipment i will have to hire is a loader to come load the logs after all the bids are given, I already have that worked out. The ground is good enough for a tractor to do everything else. I already have at least 3 guys that will come bid after i get them cut.

I was just kinda wondering what kind of situations might come up, or if there were anything that should be done no matter what.

Why are you loading logs?   Is this normal practice for your area?
The few sales I managed, logs were sold and paid for at the landing, then the Buyer was responsible for loading and hauling.

Did any of your prospective buyers actually look at the tree's?

And I agree with Furltech and WDH.  get an agreement in place on paper so there is no confusion on what is paid to whom

Best
DGDrls

strunk57

FrOm what I understand, the bidding will take place on the landing. Some buyers will have a truck with a loader. Some will not.
99 timberking b-20. John deere 450c loader. 79 Chevy c-60 95 GMC 2500, Craftsman tablesaw, Dewalt 735 13" planer, stihl ms-290 Stihl 029, Husqvarna 394xp, dewalt router & table, various sanders/hand tools.

MJD

Leave them tree length and let the buyer mark the cuts.

timberlinetree

A contract for shure stating how money is split, a time line, injury responsibility, who's responsible for permitting, property lines and I'm shure I forgot something. Good luck and work safe!
I've met Vets who have lived but still lost their lives... Thank a Vet

Family man and loving it :)

missouriboy

It takes a good cutter to cut nice walnut. We cut a lot of walnut here in this part of Missouri.

BaldBob

+1 on what WDH and MJD said to avoid future problems and get the best bids.

drobertson

Certain buyers are very critical on the butt end cuts,  saw as low as possible with NO splitting, and leave as mentioned tree length, good luck.  Just witnessed an exact scenario this fall.  It worked.  The bid winner did the bucking and loading. Not sure if this will happen in your case.  Hope so, it paid well.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

missouriboy

How nice are these trees. If they are really nice you can make some good money but all it takes is one bad cut and can lose a lot of money really fast. Cutting walnut is a pros game.

CCC4

+1 If you fall them wrong and blow a fork off...you prolly split the main stem. Also, if you pull any fiber you hurt the grade.

CCC4

Quote from: missouriboy on November 17, 2014, 08:36:13 PM
How nice are these trees. If they are really nice you can make some good money but all it takes is one bad cut and can lose a lot of money really fast. Cutting walnut is a pros game.

What part of Misery are ya cutting in bub?


luvmexfood

Only thing I can add that might be helpful is you mentioned some bidders for the logs had their own trucks and some may not. I would specify in the bid either the logs are to be loaded by the buyer or loaded by yourself. That makes everyones bid apples for apples.
Give me a new saw chain and I can find you a rock in a heartbeat.

strunk57

I appreciate the advice, They are nice trees, I would guess an avg Diameter of 16". not real big but a lot of nice ones. I just bought a 394xp to help and have been practicing hinge cutting on my own trees. I am trying to find a sample contract I can modify to my own terms. Thanks again guys for the advice.
99 timberking b-20. John deere 450c loader. 79 Chevy c-60 95 GMC 2500, Craftsman tablesaw, Dewalt 735 13" planer, stihl ms-290 Stihl 029, Husqvarna 394xp, dewalt router & table, various sanders/hand tools.

beenthere

Hate to say it, but hope you realize that 16" diam is on the small size for walnut, unless things have changed considerably recently. Do the buyers know this average size? and is it top log diam. estimate, or average diameter breast height (dbh) ??

Sapwood width will/may be a detriment too on the small diameters.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

treeslayer2003

a little small..........however, if the grade is there they could still do well..........thing is you won't get but one or two logs out of the smaller ones.

SliverPicker

Quote from: strunk57 on November 16, 2014, 06:01:33 AM
FrOm what I understand, the bidding will take place on the landing. Some buyers will have a truck with a loader. Some will not.

If you are to become the owner of the trees after they are down. You should be dictating the who, what, when and why of events that take place after the trees are felled. After all this is your sole source of income on this job. You need to control the process after the trees are horizontal.

When you say "From what I understand..." I see a red flag.
Yooper by trade.

missouriboy

All I will say is if hinge cut walnut you are going to lose money. Here in Missouri were we cut a lot of walnut we never hinge walnut unless it is a low grade lumber tree. I don't have any pics to show how we cut it. Its kinda hard for me to explain with out showing you in person maybe someone else can.

treeslayer2003

Quote from: missouriboy on November 18, 2014, 07:49:17 PM
All I will say is if hinge cut walnut you are going to lose money. Here in Missouri were we cut a lot of walnut we never hinge walnut unless it is a low grade lumber tree. I don't have any pics to show how we cut it. Its kinda hard for me to explain with out showing you in person maybe someone else can.
walnut can be cut with a hinge.......done right, there will be no fiber pull. i know what your doing, i quit that years ago......they normally have a defect that close to the ground here any way.

missouriboy


strunk57

99 timberking b-20. John deere 450c loader. 79 Chevy c-60 95 GMC 2500, Craftsman tablesaw, Dewalt 735 13" planer, stihl ms-290 Stihl 029, Husqvarna 394xp, dewalt router & table, various sanders/hand tools.

missouriboy

How was it. Did they all cut good. I love cutting walnut. I would like to see some pics of these trees just to see how walnut grows out your way.

strunk57

I'll try and shoot a few pics tomorrow. All is well so far, Should have them all down tomorrow.
99 timberking b-20. John deere 450c loader. 79 Chevy c-60 95 GMC 2500, Craftsman tablesaw, Dewalt 735 13" planer, stihl ms-290 Stihl 029, Husqvarna 394xp, dewalt router & table, various sanders/hand tools.

RayMO

Be very,very careful as walnut fever has caused many a logger loss of sleep and the desire to chase walnut as if his very life depended on more and more kinda like most any addict  ;D
Father & Son Logging and sawing operation .

missouriboy

Quote from: RayMO on November 20, 2014, 08:38:08 PM
Be very,very careful as walnut fever has caused many a logger loss of sleep and the desire to chase walnut as if his very life depended on more and more kinda like most any addict  ;D

This is very true. For me cutting nice walnut is one of the few things I enjoy in life.



Nemologger

I just got done cutting a couple walnut jobs. One was 77 trees the other was 34 trees....I made good money so did the landowner. I always put a contract together. Right now walnut is as good as I have seen it in years. Good luck and be safe man.
Clean and Sober

strunk57

Sorry Missouri, been busy and forgot to come here. I loaded two trucks today, done really well IMO scale was 8000 bdft, avg was 2.05. I thought that was great considering there were ALOT of small logs. I got $7 out of a couple logs. I still have around 4000 ft to get out, I took a few pics will have to post later.
99 timberking b-20. John deere 450c loader. 79 Chevy c-60 95 GMC 2500, Craftsman tablesaw, Dewalt 735 13" planer, stihl ms-290 Stihl 029, Husqvarna 394xp, dewalt router & table, various sanders/hand tools.

strunk57

99 timberking b-20. John deere 450c loader. 79 Chevy c-60 95 GMC 2500, Craftsman tablesaw, Dewalt 735 13" planer, stihl ms-290 Stihl 029, Husqvarna 394xp, dewalt router & table, various sanders/hand tools.

strunk57

Sorry for taking so long, been very busy and not on the pc very much.
99 timberking b-20. John deere 450c loader. 79 Chevy c-60 95 GMC 2500, Craftsman tablesaw, Dewalt 735 13" planer, stihl ms-290 Stihl 029, Husqvarna 394xp, dewalt router & table, various sanders/hand tools.

NWP

1999 Blockbuster 2222, 1997 Duratech HD10, 2021 Kubota SVL97-2, 2011 Case SV250, 2000 Case 1845C, 2004 Case 621D, John Deere 540A, 2011 Freightliner with Prentice 120C, 2012 Chevrolet, 1997 GMC bucket truck, several trailers, and Stihl saws.

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