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Manual Mill Cut Rates

Started by FarmingSawyer, November 12, 2014, 06:03:29 PM

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FarmingSawyer

Is anyone else out there crazy enough to be running a manual mill as a mobile sawing service? If so, what are your daily averages?  Seems like I'm doing pretty good..... lately I've been getting around 1300bf/day (usually 6-7 hrs) without including the slab/edging pile. I'd love to up this, but stopping to winch logs on or turn monsters....or scrape mud off really slows things down.

Then there are the helpers.... I've been blessed with some great jobs with great customers, but I honestly can't think I could make them go any faster..... While I dream of upgrading to a hydraulic mill soon I'm not sure some of these duffers have 2000--3000bf/day in them......
Thomas 8020, Stihl 039, Stihl 036, Homelite Super EZ, Case 385, Team of Drafts

terrifictimbersllc

That's a lot of hard work for the sawyer to pull off on a manual mill, 200 bf/hr over a day, duffers or not.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

drobertson

Feed more lobster at break time?  maybe?  Really sounds like you need to take the bite on a Hydraulic
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

jmouton

we have a lt-25 manual  with a 24 hp honda ,  we love it  , hyd would be better  and we do go mobile from time to time  and we get 65 an hour  plus  milage  or so ,   when we are at our shop we have a loader  to help with logs  so we can do pretty well  with  bd ft ,  for 2 guys  ,   we  arnt crazy , i dont think , well maybe ,,,


                                                                                                              jim
lt-40 wide ,,bobcat,sterling tandem flatbed log truck,10 ton trailer, stihl 075,041,029,066,and a 2017 f-350,oh and an edger

dyates

200 feet an hour is humpin on a manual mill.  I'd have to saw straight 8/4 to get half that.
Daniel

jmouton

200 bd ft an hour is  humpin,    we dont go that fast  ,   but somedays  we can if the stars aline ,
lt-40 wide ,,bobcat,sterling tandem flatbed log truck,10 ton trailer, stihl 075,041,029,066,and a 2017 f-350,oh and an edger

hunz

Every market location is going to bear different pricing. Here in WNC, I get $55/hr for an lt35 hydraulic. I personally wouldn't charge over $35/hr here if I had a manual mill. More power to you if you can get that kind of pricing with a manual. I think of it in terms of say a grading job you hire out. A guy with a $60,000 dozer is going to get 90-100hr. With my mill being worth roughly a third of that, I'd be hard pressed to ask for much more around these parts anyway.......
Dream as if you'll saw forever; saw as if you'll die today.



2006 Woodmizer LT40D51RA, Husqvarna 372xp, Takeuchi TL140

Lumber Grader

I have often thought that the most profitable sawmill would be a manual mill. Charge the customer's at least $50 per hour and let them do the lumber piling, log turning and generally most of the labor. Owner would do the sawing and keep customers AWAY from the band saw. I have looked at a lot of mills for a lot of years and the EZ Boardwalk Model 40 with a standard 25 HP Honda seems the most return on the dollar at only $8,000 with all the bells and whistles they offer on this quality manual mill built by hard working Mennonites. The area I am in has NO ONE that offers a portable sawmilling service. The only mill that does custom sawing in my area is about 40 miles away and you have to bring your logs to him and they charge $350 per MBF to saw your logs on their TimberKing at their location. To me most folks that spend all the money on a hydraulic mill usually will not ever turn a profit unless they know how to grade hardwood lumber or have a unique niche market. I am almost 60 years old and I think I am gonna get a model 40 EZ Boardwalk and will try to charge $50 hour, plus mileage one way. I think the return on the investment will be quick and if I ever decide to sell, I should be able to get most of the $8,000 back if I sell it used. I will start off at $50 and if I get more business than I can handle, then I will raise my price per hour to $55, $60, $65 etc. I think competition determines what most folks charge. I would love to hear what other folks in other areas are charging with their manual portable band sawmill? Your comments???

FarmingSawyer

We've talked pricing here before....but I'll revisit it with what I've come up with.....
When I was deciding on going mobile I looked around at local prices. Seems .25/bf was average with a lot going on the low end. No one was really advertizing an hourly rate. I did some talking to a sawyer from VT at the fair with an older much "loved" orange machine who only charges by the hour. $65. I figured on my niche and what my target would be.
I also put in the mix the great advice here and the feedback I was getting from potential customers on what other, local sawyers had told them--as in "heck no I won't saw your pickup load of short clear cherry" and "I won't cut softwood", "I only cut pine...." and worse yet...."can't get to it, cut it up for firewood...." Most of these fellas have hydraulic mills.......

Because I am manual, and therefore slower I set an hourly rate of $45. My mill costs less to operate and that is over what I could get bending nails or felling trees....seems like a good compromise. If and when I go hydraulic I'd be going for upwards of $65.....
My Bf price is $.35 flat fee. I don't charge different for size or species like some. It is more than most around here charge and I've had some refusals. But it also gives me some grace to scrape mud off logs, cut some smaller pieces mixed in with a lot of large logs and not have to stop and hit a stopwatch or mix in an hourly charge--although I definitely do if the job....or customer...warrants it.

I am also advertising the ability to cut wider logs. They're not fun to get up there, but I am confident I can get most logs on my mill now that I've had several monsters up there. Customers with the big boys usually want bigger pieces, so the yield for the time goes up.

On the job I've been on all week I average 7-8 logs a day. I didn't bother scaling the logs until yesterday when I took a count of the remaining 5 logs in the stack. They scale a 950bf. I want to verify my over-run. They will be mostly some 2x12....if I can squeeze them out of the one log that will make the necessary  length, and 2x6 with as many wide boards coming off the logs as possible. I also have any edging to do today, or bar that, to scale the live-edge side cut. I'm more than generous and fair in scaling live-edge, taking an average of the width, deducting heavy for defect. Today I may just call the mixed pile of 8, 10, 12 footers all 8 foot and measure the width and height rounding down and call it good. I'm tired and really don't want to handle all them boards.

If I could have 2 jobs like this a month, and a few smaller ones in between 9 or 10 months of the year, I could call this a living. And I would definitely upgrade to a hydraulic mill.....one that can cut 36" and 20ft long. I've got my sights set on a CooksAC-36 with a 62hp perkins AND an edger......I've got my own house package to cut out, and at least another possible one in the next 2 years in my future. But, I'd have to get a loan to do that....and I am loath to borrow money now that I am almost debt free.......Oh an I'd probably keep the Thomas 8020....because it's light and easy to fit on a city lot for a few urban trees.....but then again....if I get my hands on a hydraulic setworks my shoulders might never want to crank a head up OR down again.
Thomas 8020, Stihl 039, Stihl 036, Homelite Super EZ, Case 385, Team of Drafts

FarmingSawyer

Quote from: drobertson on November 12, 2014, 07:46:01 PM
Feed more lobster at break time?  maybe?  Really sounds like you need to take the bite on a Hydraulic

Funny thing is I'm being treated really well on this job....coffee break with goodies and a hearty lunch every day. AND the son I'm cutting the cabin package for is a lobsterman building on his father's farm...but no lobstah rolls for lunch....yet.....
Thomas 8020, Stihl 039, Stihl 036, Homelite Super EZ, Case 385, Team of Drafts

FarmingSawyer

Well... I finished my most recent, and productive job yet. Sore, tired, but well paid and loving every minute of it....even with the occasional difficult customer relation issues.
Milled a little over 5500bf in 4 days.....so an average of 1300+bf/day NOT including the 800+bf of edging...but we won't go there.... >:(

Here are some photos of what one insane dude and "Millhouse" can do.....
The objective:


 


 

Due to miscommunication ( and a sly customer) the end results: Too big a slab pile with lots of useable lumber....and a "worthless to me" edging pile he wouldn't let me edge...


 
A cabin in a field:


 
One of the more challenging logs:


 


 
A swack of nice 1x17x12's


 
Once the pile was down, it was easier to get the logs on the mill.....


 
Iffn you're willing to pay, I'm willing to play.....


 
Winching this twisted sistah on the mill and it curled around and bit my backstop......


 
Sometimes a bit of explanation and a diagram help....especially on mission critical logs....


 


  
There was some nice wood in the stack:


 
Only 1 log in the stack would make the 1 required 5x12x16...I got him 2 and some 2x6 and a bunch of 1x12.....


 
Thomas 8020, Stihl 039, Stihl 036, Homelite Super EZ, Case 385, Team of Drafts

drobertson

Heck of a job!  feels good don't it?  8)
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

RM Farm

I hope to be able to do that sometime in the near future :). Still learning tips and tricks from all you guys. Great job!
Thanks, Robert

Woodland Mills HM126; Kubota L3200 with FEL, quick attach forks.

RPowers

I'll throw in my .02 here.

I've been building my milling business as a 2nd income for about 8 months now. I charge $50/hr on a WM LT28 with a 25hp engine and log deck package to help with turning, loading, ect. About50-60% of my clients have some form of heavy equip to load/unload with, and the rest are all completely manual jobs. I average somewhere between 700-1500bdft/day in 99% hardwood logs. The last job I did was half manual, half with a loader, and I cut around 2600bdft of 1x6 in about 15 hours of mill time.

I'm working my way towards buying a hydraulic, and I'll probably still charge hourly on 90% of my jobs after that due to several factors:
1) customers have no idea of the process and often don't trim or stage their logs properly, meaning I get to do so before milling starts
2) Logs have often been skidded via truck or similar leaving lots or rocks/mud deep into the bark that has to be dealt with
3) many of my clients are retired and or not really athletic, meaning I get to do off-bearing as well.
4) hourly allows for the time spent on helping people decide just how best to cut their logs, as much of what I cut is hobby lumber and I am asked when I show up "what's the best way" to cut their logs.

I had typed more and computer ate it, so I've got to go prep for this afternoon's job. Also, I cut almost all hardwoods, which are alot slower than the nice pine some of y'all get to play with most of the time.

RP
2013 Woodmizer LT28G25 (sold 2016)
2015 Woodmizer LT50HDD47

woodweasel

I have a lt35 manual with the deck package.I have a skidder and a front end loader, to load logs on my property.When I go mobile I make sure the customer has something to load the logs with.I get $65 hr. Straight up.Plus $1.50 per mile one way.It's also $65 hr. at my place. I furnish at least one helper at both locations ,we hump it!

strunk57

I run a Norwood lumber lite 24, only 8 hp motor. I went mobile earlier this year and have done several mobile jobs since. I avg 110-125 bdft per hr. I charge 250mbf. It's not a lot but better than working at a factory IMO. I haven't took many mobile jobs the last 3 months as my cedar market has picked up quiet a bit. I can mill at home for 800mbdft. Although I still have 3 mobile jobs lined up. If you are cutting as much as you say you are you are doing well.
99 timberking b-20. John deere 450c loader. 79 Chevy c-60 95 GMC 2500, Craftsman tablesaw, Dewalt 735 13" planer, stihl ms-290 Stihl 029, Husqvarna 394xp, dewalt router & table, various sanders/hand tools.

Chuck White

Back when I first started sawing, I was using my FIL's LT40G18 manual mill.

I would average right around 1,000 bf per day and usually every day seemed like a long one!  smiley_sweat_drop
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

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