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John Deere 440D hydraulic pump

Started by jdatwood, November 08, 2014, 08:57:48 PM

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jdatwood

Hello gentlemen,
I need some help with my hydraulics. This summer I decided to put my machine up for sale so I began getting everything ready. I decided I should replace the hydro pump due to the pressure being a bit low. I was getting 1750psi out of the rated 2350psi Not un-reasonable for a 10 year old pump. That's where my problems began. My first pump lasted 10 hrs and quit. I'm now at about 20 hrs on the second one and it's overheating and not relieving pressure correctly. Both pumps were remans by the same company. I'm kind of baffled as to why two pumps could be bad has anyone ever heard of such a thing???? I'm basically at my whit's end with this thing. I just want to get everything 100 percent for the next guy because it's the right thing to do. Any words of wisdom? Past similar experience's? I would surely appreciate anything anyone could share that may help.

Maine logger88

Man I wish more people were like you when it comes too selling equipment! I can't help you with the pump tho when I had trouble I had a Deere guy fix it so I have no clue about them other than there expensive
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BargeMonkey

 Uhm... ive got 11,400 on my original pump. Someone did something wrong somewhere. Just sell me the machine at a serious discount.  :D

jdatwood

Quote from: Maine logger88 on November 08, 2014, 10:09:26 PM
Man I wish more people were like you when it comes too selling equipment! I can't help you with the pump tho when I had trouble I had a Deere guy fix it so I have no clue about them other than there expensive

Thank you, I don't do this for a living but I do it enough to understand and appreciate how hard you guys work that do. I would feel terrible to find out something I knew about and could have remedied cost someone a week of downtime and thousands of dollars. I'll keep it longer, cut more wood, and pay to get it right before I do that. I'm asking top dollar for it so it needs to be top shape.

jdatwood

Quote from: BargeMonkey on November 09, 2014, 12:03:18 AM
Uhm... ive got 11,400 on my original pump. Someone did something wrong somewhere. Just sell me the machine at a serious discount.  :D

I'm with you, somebody screwed something up and it wasn't me! Problem is if I give it back a second time I won't have the core to try someone else. Dont see any reason to believe a third will be any better. Thinking of trying a company called Kintec industries out in the mid west. They talk a good game and claim to be john deere specialist. Those deere pumps are on demand radial pumps they're a different animal.

Pa woodchuck

I just got a pump for my 540a from kin-tech. Seems to work just fine.

snowstorm

did the first pump come apart? with broken pieces and grindings . if so they some of it stayed behind. put a new pump on and the grindings take that one out

jdatwood

Quote from: snowstorm on November 09, 2014, 04:06:36 PM
did the first pump come apart? with broken pieces and grindings . if so they some of it stayed behind. put a new pump on and the grindings take that one out

Worked one minute, the next it didn't. Found no metal in the system. New pump still pumps and makes pressure but is making a lot of heat.

lopet

How many hoses or lines you have going to and coming off the pump? Are they all in the same order as they were?
What is the company saying you got the pumps from ?
Don't really have much experience with radial piston pumps, just trying to find out what could heat up the oil. Hydraulics some times can do weird things.
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jdatwood

Quote from: jdatwood on November 09, 2014, 04:21:49 PM
Quote from: snowstorm on November 09, 2014, 04:06:36 PM
did the first pump come apart? with broken pieces and grindings . if so they some of it stayed behind. put a new pump on and the grindings take that one out

Worked one minute, the next it didn't. Found no metal in the system. New pump still pumps and makes pressure but is making a lot of heat.


You got me thinking.... I did immediately check the filters after the first pump went to make sure there wasn't metal or other contaminants in it and there wasn't. Today I pressure washed everything, tinkered on a couple things and decided to fire it up and check hydraulic function. It worked pretty good just noticed a lot of flow/cavitation noise coming from the rear charge pump area. Decided to pull the suction screen and there was half of the gasket missing from the filter I suspect causing cavitation on the charge line to the main hydraulic pump. What little I know about hydraulics I do know that leaks and blow by are bad and cause heat, normally a temp gun is a technicians best friend when troubleshooting problems. I can't pick up a gasket till tomorrow but my theory is that the cavitation is causing my symptoms of heat and a feeling of air in the system. I'm also going to bring a thermography camera home from work to assist my search for leaking components. The more I run the machine the worse and hotter it gets which makes sense as the oil gets thinner than spec. Other than having a feeling of air in the system it worked pretty good this evening so fingers crossed that's all it is.

jdatwood

Quote from: lopet on November 09, 2014, 05:14:48 PM
How many hoses or lines you have going to and coming off the pump? Are they all in the same order as they were?
What is the company saying you got the pumps from ?
Don't really have much experience with radial piston pumps, just trying to find out what could heat up the oil. Hydraulics some times can do weird things.

It only has four lines but since if something can go wrong it will so photographed the pump before removal and installed it the same way. Another good thing is the four lines are all different sizes so it will only go back one way. The company is saying it's an issue with my machine. I don't buy it, the pump only worked 10hrs The original was almost 80 percent and was years old. The new pump they gave me seems to make pressure fine so far so it may or may not be the issue. Still trying to figure out what the heck it could be. I'm hoping it's just the gasket on that suction screen.

snowstorm

Quote from: jdatwood on November 09, 2014, 07:10:01 PM
Quote from: jdatwood on November 09, 2014, 04:21:49 PM
Quote from: snowstorm on November 09, 2014, 04:06:36 PM
did the first pump come apart? with broken pieces and grindings . if so they some of it stayed behind. put a new pump on and the grindings take that one out

Worked one minute, the next it didn't. Found no metal in the system. New pump still pumps and makes pressure but is making a lot of heat.


You got me thinking.... I did immediately check the filters after the first pump went to make sure there wasn't metal or other contaminants in it and there wasn't. Today I pressure washed everything, tinkered on a couple things and decided to fire it up and check hydraulic function. It worked pretty good just noticed a lot of flow/cavitation noise coming from the rear charge pump area. Decided to pull the suction screen and there was half of the gasket missing from the filter I suspect causing cavitation on the charge line to the main hydraulic pump. What little I know about hydraulics I do know that leaks and blow by are bad and cause heat, normally a temp gun is a technicians best friend when troubleshooting problems. I can't pick up a gasket till tomorrow but my theory is that the cavitation is causing my symptoms of heat and a feeling of air in the system. I'm also going to bring a thermography camera home from work to assist my search for leaking components. The more I run the machine the worse and hotter it gets which makes sense as the oil gets thinner than spec. Other than having a feeling of air in the system it worked pretty good this evening so fingers crossed that's all it is.
any air in it would take care of itself. if it is cavateing could be at the charge pump if that dosent supply enought oil to the piston pump it cant work right. and how hot is the oil? 150 is not hot 185 yes

jdatwood

Quote from: snowstorm on November 09, 2014, 08:59:27 PM
Quote from: jdatwood on November 09, 2014, 07:10:01 PM
Quote from: jdatwood on November 09, 2014, 04:21:49 PM
Quote from: snowstorm on November 09, 2014, 04:06:36 PM
did the first pump come apart? with broken pieces and grindings . if so they some of it stayed behind. put a new pump on and the grindings take that one out

Worked one minute, the next it didn't. Found no metal in the system. New pump still pumps and makes pressure but is making a lot of heat.


You got me thinking.... I did immediately check the filters after the first pump went to make sure there wasn't metal or other contaminants in it and there wasn't. Today I pressure washed everything, tinkered on a couple things and decided to fire it up and check hydraulic function. It worked pretty good just noticed a lot of flow/cavitation noise coming from the rear charge pump area. Decided to pull the suction screen and there was half of the gasket missing from the filter I suspect causing cavitation on the charge line to the main hydraulic pump. What little I know about hydraulics I do know that leaks and blow by are bad and cause heat, normally a temp gun is a technicians best friend when troubleshooting problems. I can't pick up a gasket till tomorrow but my theory is that the cavitation is causing my symptoms of heat and a feeling of air in the system. I'm also going to bring a thermography camera home from work to assist my search for leaking components. The more I run the machine the worse and hotter it gets which makes sense as the oil gets thinner than spec. Other than having a feeling of air in the system it worked pretty good this evening so fingers crossed that's all it is.
any air in it would take care of itself. if it is cavateing could be at the charge pump if that dosent supply enought oil to the piston pump it cant work right. and how hot is the oil? 150 is not hot 185 yes

The oil was hotter than I've ever seen yesterday. Didn't have a temp gun but I can tell you that putting my arm on the side of the transmission to work on something left a first degree burn. That's definitely too hot and not normal for my machine.

BargeMonkey

 Ive got the factory books for a 440D if that helps you any ? Also have the large tech manual for a 440C. Let me know if you need any of the diagrams blown up.

jdatwood

Thanks I really appreciate the offer, I'll see tonight what the gasket on the charge pump screen does. Deere only offered the whole filter with gasket for $125 of coarse. I don't need a filter it's just a stainless basket so it's renewable. Fortunately we have gasket dies and materials at work so I made a couple new ones. Gonna try that tonight and monitor it with a thermography camera. Hoping that takes care of it.

cutbank

Take off the casing drain line on the pump and make sure the pump cavity is full of oil if not fill other wise bad things can happen

coxy

my uncle had trouble with his 440b after changing the pump and had to bleed the steering pump under the dash took a while but just had some air in it        every one told him the air would come out  but a retired jd man said bleed it and re bleed it  :) worked fine after that     don't know if your jd has the same set up or not just a thought  good luck  ;D

jdatwood

New suction screen gaskets and a quick check with a thermography camera show it seems to be all better. Thanks for the help everyone, now on to one more little issue for another thread!

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