Finally-My new mill

[woodworker9]

I finally was able to find a mill that I was happy with.  Yesterday, I dragged home a 2003 Woodmizer LT40 hydraulic w/ accuset, debarker, lubemizer, 25 hp Kohler, and all the rest of the goodies that come with it.....well, almost.

Just as a side note/complaint, it truly amazes me how many people can just misinform (read lie, lie, lie) and be dishonest about selling something.  I had 2 transactions on previous mills come apart at the seems over attempts at deception.  Even with this purchase, I have a little work to do that wasn't disclosed, but I'm overall happy.

The mill has 190 hours on it.....and is in super nice condition, overall.  I have two issues that I know of so far, that I'll ask about in a moment.  I was told on the phone by the owner that everything was operating perfectly, and that they hadn't used it in quite some time.  He told me had the owners manual on the mill and the accuset.  When I arrived, the mill was as described, but neither he nor his son knew how to operate it very well.  They own a very large farm in Wisconsin, and one of their hands operated the mill for them, and he was no longer there.

The first thing they did was start up the mill, and get everything "opened up" to demonstrate it.  Immediately, while lowering the log loader arms, they crushed the wheel fender.  That was a shot of adrenaline.   Other than that, all the hydraulically operated stuff on the mill works as its supposed to.  Good news there.

Now the bad.....hopefully minor.

The 25 hp. Kohler V-twin idles perfectly, but when the clutch is engaged to run it at cutting speed, you can visibly see it run itself out of gas through the transparent fuel filter very quickly....in a minute or so, and the engine dies.  It fires right back up, and this repeats itself constantly.  There is never more than 1/4" of fuel in the bottom of the fuel filter, and it quickly runs out again and again.....

Is there a fuel pump on this motor?  I'm guessing so because the fuel line is below the motor from the fuel tank.   Any knowledge on this from the forum would be appreciated. 

Other issue is that the debarker will not turn on.  I haven't checked the leads for power yet, so I don't know if it's a switch issue or other.  The switch that moves the debarker left to right works fine, but the switched labeled "I  O" does nothing to fire up the debarker.  Any thoughts?  Is a bad switch common on these, or something else I should check?

The issue I'm mostly disappointed about was that I drove the 3 hours to pick it up, and was told the night before by the owner that he had the manuals.  When I arrived, he informed me that he couldn't find them, and would continue his search, and ship them to me, or get new ones at his expense from Woodmizer.  I have to say that really ticked me off.  So, I have not manuals at present to go through and debug some of these minor issues.

All things said, I'm extremely excited to finally have this mill.  I waited a long, long time, and while expensive, I'm glad I stepped up to the hydraulic mill.  I almost bought a manual mill several years back, and I feel that it would only have been a matter of time before moving up to this mill, anyway.

Here's the only pic I have of it right now, in a parking lot (my truck cropped out) in Platteville, Wisconsin, where my wife and I stopped for lunch after retrieval.


 

8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

No more hauling my hardwood logs to the local sawmill guy, whose prices are insane ($1 per bf....he's never busy) and who refuses to listen anyway on how I want my logs cut.

Any help you all can offer to get me going until my manuals arrive is greatly appreciated.

Jeff

[blade69001]

Congrats on the new mill!!
Sean P.

[Magicman]

Is the vent open on the fuel cap?

The Debarker only runs when the power feed lever is in the forward position.

edit: Oh my,  Congratulations on the sawmill !!!    8)

[woodworker9]

Here's some more pics:  It's 37° and snowing here, so nothing else to do but mess around with the mill.   ;D ;D  At least, that's my story, and I'm stickin' to it!



  

  

  

  

  

 

I know we all like photo's, so I hope I did ok^^^^^.

Magicman,

I don't know, but that's the next thing I'll check into.  Thanks for the tip....heading out there right now.

Jeff

[brianb88]

That's a nice looking mill you have there.

[OneWithWood]

I have almost the exact mill.  You are going to like it a lot 

[Joe Hillmann]

My family had an lt40 and after bringing it it to have some work done on it it would do the same thing you describe.  It could run all day at idle but couldn't finish a cut once it revved up and the blade was engaged without dieing.

It turned out that when it was in the shop they re routed the fuel line and when it was as idle it was fine but when the when it was engaged something pinched the fuel line.  The fix was just to re route the fuel line back to where it was.

On yours I would, with the engine off, engage the blade then follow the fuel line to see if it is pinched anywhere.

[mart]

Congrats on the new mill. I just bought one three weeks ago, not that nice, but a good solid older LT30. Enjoy.

[AnthonyW]

Could be as simple as something sitting in the bottom of the fuel tank, plugging the hole. I had that issue with a tractor that was given to me with the same symptoms you describe. Somehow the fuel tank had a bunch of dead earwig beetles in it.

[Magicman]

had a bunch of dead earwig beetles in it.

Maybe that is what is wrong with Poston.   

[woodworker9]

Previous owners installed a quick-disconnect from the tank to the fuel line so they could pull the tank down to re-fuel.  I'm going to remove that, and just change the fuel line, filter, and fuel pump.  I read online that fuel pumps are common problems on these, as they are vacuum.  Once I know everything is new, I'll go from there.

Anybody think this is a bad idea for troubleshooting?  I figure, it can't hurt, and it's cheap money.

It was NOT the vent, but thanks for the tip anyway, Magicman.

Thoughts?

[golddredger]

Those vacuum diaphragm pumps do go bad. You can get a rebuild kit for it or they sell new universal pumps on e-bay for around $20.00. The diaprham gets dry and stiff if they sit. Then then vacuum pusle from the engine that runs the pump is just not enough to move the stiff rubber in the pump. So it moves fuel just not enough.
Sweeeeeet mill have fun!

[Chuck White]

Congratulations on the mill, I'm sure you'll like running it!

Reference to the fuel filter, the fuel filter will never be full, it will usually be between 1/4 & 1/3.  Still baffles me, but that's just the way it is!

[thecfarm]

A mighty fine looking mill.

[woodworker9]

Thanks to all.

Re:  running issue.  I changed the fuel pump and fuel filter with oem Kohler parts.  Still runs great at idle, and quits after about a minute once I engage the blade and run it at operating speed.

I'll have to delve in further to the problem.  Tomorrow (it's freezing here, literally, with 45 mph winds) I'm going to change the spark plugs and oil, and go from there. 

If anybody has any insight, keep it coming.  I'm stumped right now.  Still happy though.  My wife just said it just wouldn't be right for me to get ANY machine that I didn't have to fix first, since I restore all my old woodworking machines.  Oh, well.

:( :(

[kensfarm]

Very nice.. you'll be making sawdust before you know it.. congrats.

[Banjo picker]

Fine looking mill.  Might be a good thing they had lost the manuals and the employee that knew how to run it...Could be the employee left with the manuals...just sayin   ;)  Banjo

[Dave Shepard]

I agree that the filter will never be full. I would check to see that the tank vent is open and working on the fuel jug. That is the little button in the middle of the cap. Or just take the cap off for a bit to see if that helps. If not, then there is something else preventing it from sucking enough fuel.

[Holmes]

I would go with AnthonyW..  Can you blow thru the fuel line back into the tank. A small piece of foil from some additive cap floating around in the fuel can block off the suction line.

[GAB]

Woodworker9:
I have 2005 LT40HDD34 and my suggestions are as follows;
Concerning the debarker - there is a breaker that trips on occasion.
Sorry I do not remember which one it is, but I'd be looking for that as a possible source of your problem.  Also I've had to change a breaker so beware of a possible bad breaker.
Concerning the engine dieing - on my mill there is a shut off valve in the fuel line that occasionally when removing the engine cover the valve handle gets moved and this causes a chokeing of the fuel supply.  (happened to me yesterday).
Congratulations on your new toy, hope you enjoy it.
Try not to hit the log stop as it is rough on the blade.
Gerald

[Tree Dan]

You got one fine mill there.... congrats 8)
The manual will be a thick binder.
You said the temps were low...Could it be frost in the line?
I know theres problems with fuel right at the freezing mark or very near it....But wooo hooo you must be happy...Its all there have fun!

[Chuck White]

Woodworker9:
I have 2005 LT40HDD34 and my suggestions are as follows;
Concerning the debarker - there is a breaker that trips on occasion.
Sorry I do not remember which one it is, but I'd be looking for that as a possible source of your problem.  Also I've had to change a breaker so beware of a possible bad breaker.
Concerning the engine dieing - on my mill there is a shut off valve in the fuel line that occasionally when removing the engine cover the valve handle gets moved and this causes a chokeing of the fuel supply.  (happened to me yesterday).
Congratulations on your new toy, hope you enjoy it.
Try not to hit the log stop as it is rough on the blade.
Gerald

On my LT40, the ckt breaker for the debarker is located on the side of the debarker control panel box!

I have added a Kohler 25hp engine to my LT40 an it just doesn't like cold weather.  What I did when I was sawing in the cold a couple of weeks ago was to just pull on the throttle cable a little until the engine got warmed up.  Later, I was told by a couple of friends that I could just put a piece of cardboard on the grill on the front of the engine and it will warm up quicker!  Probably try that next time!

[StimW]

Those fuel pumps rely on a sealed crankcase for the pulse. Even a bad O-ring on the dipstick could cause problems.
Because the filter is under vacuum it won't be full when running.
You need to completely drain the tank to dry and then start with fresh gas. Water is a big issue with anything that has sat for any length of time. Might have water in the carburator too. You can try giving it a hard choke to try to suck it on through.
You can also remove the air cleaner and spray carb cleaner in the two small vent holes in the top of the carb.
If there is a fuel connection from the tank like on an outboard motor they are known to have the O-ring get cut inside the connector.

[woodworker9]

Thanks, guys, for all the replies.

I installed the new fuel pump and fuel filter, both oem Kohler parts, and removed the quick-connect from the fuel line at the tank.  All to no avail.  The motor was allowed to idle for 10 minutes, and it ran perfectly the whole time.  Motor was plenty hot.  It'll run at high speed for 45 to 60 seconds before cutting out and dying.
My best guess is carburetor.  Tomorrow, I'm gonna replace all the fuel lines, clean the carb, change the spark plugs, and see what happens.

Sooner or later, I'll figure it out.  Hopefully, it'll be sooner.  If changing everything and cleaning the carbs doesn't work, I might have to wave the white flag and take it to a small engines guy who knows more about them than I do.  I'm just a parts replacer at this point.

I did find the fuse for the debarker.  On my mill, it's on the back of the accuset control box.  I haven't even messed with it yet, as I haven't had the mill in operational mode moving down the bed yet.  I've been running it (or trying to) in it's parked position for trailering, trying to debug.

[barbender]

Congratulations on a fine mill! On the debarker, you don't need to move the head. You just need to put your power feed in the forward position and turn the debarker switch on. Your debarker should come on, along with the safety alarm that goes with it. For your fuel issue, I would use another tank or set yours up so it can gravity feed, what I am getting at is you need to establish that you have unimpeded fuel flow getting to the engine. There's no sense rebuilding a carb when it could be a blocked fuel line in the tank. I've seen CARB compliant fuel tanks behave like yours, the cap vents are bad and the tank will vacuum lock. They run for a minute, and die like you turned the switch off. I would think a carb or fuel pump issue would cause a consistent rough running issue, if it runs great and then just shuts down, you have a restriction somewhere. Good luck!

[Nomad]

Congratulations on a fine mill! On the debarker, you don't need to move the head. You just need to put your power feed in the forward position and turn the debarker switch on. Your debarker should come on, along with the safety alarm that goes with it. For your fuel issue, I would use another tank or set yours up so it can gravity feed, what I am getting at is you need to establish that you have unimpeded fuel flow getting to the engine. There's no sense rebuilding a carb when it could be a blocked fuel line in the tank. I've seen CARB compliant fuel tanks behave like yours, the cap vents are bad and the tank will vacuum lock. They run for a minute, and die like you turned the switch off. I would think a carb or fuel pump issue would cause a consistent rough running issue, if it runs great and then just shuts down, you have a restriction somewhere. Good luck!

     I was going to make these exact same comments until I saw barbender's post.  I think he nailed it.  When you put the feed in forward, just turn the speed dial all the way to zero.

[scully]

Very nice mill ! I would look at the breakers and press them to reset . The fuel problem sound minor but I don't have any better suggestions than what have allready been given .

[Sawyer697]

Could you have a fuel line that has a small hole in the line some where, possible Kink. Try some thing simple first. A line clamp?
Beautiful Mill, and all the goodies. You will love sawing Logs with this mill! 8)

[FarmingSawyer]

Another thing to consider is that DanG ethanol in the gas..... If a carb sits with it for any length of time small holes plug up and diaphrams get brittle......I've had that problem on my mill before sitting over the winter..... took the carb off, backed out all the needle valves and flushed everything out. Worked like a champ afterwards. Now I put marine grade additive in all my fuel and if I know I'm leaving the mill for more than a few days I shut the fuel line off and run the carb out of fuel.

[woodworker9]

I have great news to report.   8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

But first, the not so great news.  I have to say that it truly amazes me how people can afford to buy a $30K mill ($32,700 if built today....I checked) and not have the common sense to ensure that the proper maintenance gets done correctly, if being done by somebody other than themselves, and that it gets taken care of.

Here's what I found, after dedicating today to getting this problem solved.  I decided to just take everything apart, and it was a good thing I did.  After removing the air cleaner and the plastic body off the motor front, you just wouldn't believe what I found.  There were two completely compacted mice nests jammed inside around the heads, as well as everywhere else with an open space.  The mice also chewed through the ground wire from the carb to the motor block.  It wasn't the first time this had happened, because the PO had done a half-assed repair to the same wire by splicing in a 3" section of small wire and twisting it to the other two pieces.  I mean....come on!!!!  The wire was only 8" long to begin with.  I removed it, and replaced it with a sealed connectors.  I also had to replace one of the two coil wires from the wiring harness.  It powered the coil on the operators side cylinder, and the motor was running on one cylinder before, which explains a lot.  The plug, when pulled, was soaken wet with fuel and completely carbonized over.

So, here's what I did:

I removed everything.  Replaced all the wires with new, heavier gauge wiring and sealed connectors.  I cleaned the coils.
Replaced both sparkplugs.
Replaced air cleaner.  Old one was just filled with mice crap, oil, and barn fodder and hay.
Replaced fuel pump and all fuel lines.
Drained oil......PO had 3 quarts of oil in the motor.....it only takes 2 quarts.  I replaced it with Amsoil synthetic.....just 2 quarts.   And a Kohler filter, also.
Removed quick connector from fuel tank line.  PO had used 3/8" fuel line to add it, and rest of system is 1/4" fuel line.  I didn't want to take a chance.  I'll find a new connector with the proper size fittings.

I got everything tightened up and back together, and fired the mill up.  She sputtered and spewed some nasty looking smoke for about 10 seconds, and then starting purring.  I let it warm up for about 5 minutes on low idle, and then engaged the big lever, which fires everything up (Don't know what its called yet).

The mill ran awesome for a good 15 minutes before I disengaged the throttle and blades.  I swear, I was so happy I danced an Irish jig all the way around the mill.  My wife thinks I'm nuts. :D :D

Proceeded on to the debarker.  My first clue that an idiot was working on this mill was that the control panel, where all the controls are, including the hour meter, was re-installed upside down.  Yep, I'm not kidding.   Pulled out the screws and looked inside.......the debarker ground wire was not connected at all to the switch/fuse inside.  I connected it, checked all the wiring with my meter to make sure all was good, and fired up the mill again.

The debarker works just like it's supposed to. 

I am a very happy man.  Thanks to everybody in this forum for all the tips and support.  I plan on leaning on you guys heavily in the future as I learn how to mill again with a bandmill.  It's been 14 years, and the last mill I used was all manual.

Jeff, I'm gonna hit that little paypal button on the bottom left side of the forum page.  Thanks for hosting us....and thanks for everything I'm still learning.

Jeff

[Jeff]

Thank YOU Jeff.

[Dave Shepard]

Now you know where to look for the mouse nests the next time you walk away from the mill for a day or two. Those guys can really do some damage. The lever to engage everything is the clutch lever.

Some friends of mine bought a '92 LT40 manual that had only run a resaw since new. The second owner was going to saw logs, but didn't have time. He burned up a Z fuse, didn't see the spares inside the box, and used a piece of 14 awg wire to jump the posts and didn't tell us. We started using the mill and burned up the feed motor because it couldn't get enough juice through the wire, which eventually melted.  :

[barbender]

Mice have an affinity for WM mills for some reason. I have a deep dislike for mice :-[

[AnthonyW]

Mice have amn affinity for WM mills for some reason. I have a deep dislike for mice :-[

Don't forget the wasps and bees. Is it the color?

[Dave Shepard]

Mice have an affinity for being anywhere they shouldn't. :D

[Magicman]

Congrats on the repairs, and thanks for reporting back.   ;D

[hunz]

On the old(sold) manual mill in my avatar, I had a nest in the same place you described. Those puppies had chewed right though a ground wire for my fuel pump. Was an easier diagnosis for me because I was getting absolutely no fuel..... Glad you got her all wrapoed up and working! You are gonna absolutely love that Woodmizer, to say I'm proud of my lt35 is a slight understatement.

[GAB]

woodworker9:
Like MM said thanks for the report.
I, for one, would of never guessed that you had that many educational opportunities presented to you at one time.
Gerald

[terrifictimbersllc]

Glad to hear you figured it all out. 

Sprinkle or blow in red pepper periodically,  wherever you don't want mice, it works.  I got myself 5 pounds for $30 off the internet. 

[woodworker9]

Thanks to everyone for the support and words of encouragement.  This is my 2nd go-round with mice inside a small motor.  I had a similar problem with the motor of a concrete mixer about 10 years ago that sat for a couple of years unused.  The mice moved right in, and when I (finally) went to use the machine, I couldn't even pull the pull cord, it was locked up so tight.  At least on that one there was no wiring harness to eat.  Just a quick cleanup.

I can't wait to get a log on the mill, but I've got to finish a screen porch re-build on our house that is 75% finished.  The wife made me promise not to get sidetracked.....I hate when I make promises like that!  I'm a man of my word.......

I know it'll bore the heck out of all you veterans of milling, but I'll be posting pics of the first boards to come off the mill.  Sadly, the EAB has become deeply entrenched in this area, and I've lost several nice, old ash trees on the property.  Time to take em' down and make some lumber.  Ash is an excellent wood for workbenches, and I'm sure I'll find some other uses for it to......perhaps as interior walls for my workshop, which is still (sadly after 14 years) showing insulation paper.  Not very attractive to look at. :-\