One piece table top slab question

[Magicman]

Jim, Please post your pictures.  Everyone's operation is different according to their own individual business plan.  Although you did not need to, you explained your lumber's intended use very well.

Remember that the world is not always perfect, but it is always round.   

[scsmith42]

Question on where to put the pith when sawing thick slabs. 

I am about to slab up some walnut.  Sawing 3" slabs.  I was going to level the pith to the sawmill and then layout the 3" slabs so that the middle slab one has the pith right in the middle of it.  If I sawed the log right in half (right at the pith) I figure the slabs would warp a lot during drying.

What have you guys done in this respect?

I try to capture the pith in the center slab.

[stumpy]

Hey Jim, When I hit metal or some other foreign object(especially bullets) in a table slab, I try to leave it in there and finish over it if I can.  Customers love that cause it adds to the story when they show it to their friends.

[customsawyer]

I have to agree with Red Oaks on this one. If you have lumber poorly stacked, what ever the reason, and a customer shows up it reflects on your entire operation. If you want to have a professional business it has to look professional.

[Magicman]

Good point Jake.  Since I do not have a permanent setup and do not sell lumber, that is a worthwhile viewpoint.

Your yard is kinda like your "showroom".   

[tule peak timber]

A nice showroom commands higher prices .....

[xlogger]

Scott, so would you split the pith if you was trying to book match the slab?

[backwoods sawyer]

I mill for quite a few bowl turners and the pith is pure evil

When milling table tops I treat them like bowl stock and stay far enough away from the pith that its cracks are not in the piece.

[Magicman]

Do not overlook "tule peak timber's" Reply #21 above.  Sometimes that funky stuff is what the customer wants.

[tule peak timber]

Did someone mention pith ?

 

[drobertson]

Pretty, nice finish, how hard are these to move without damaging the finish?

[tule peak timber]

locally , a pickup truck, bubble wrap, and some blankets works fine. Going across the country, I usually recommend  finishing at the site .The finer the finish , the easier it is to spot some single micro sized flaw, sort of a vicious cycle. I always make the customer responsible for transportation. In terms of size , a jib boom on a loader, and padded nylon slings. Rob

[Ianab]

You can be fairly sure the pith is going to "misbehave" in some way. Warp, split or something. Different species and even different trees react differently. Some wood you can leave the pith in a board and have very little effect. Others you know are going to create a +/- 2" crack somewhere around the pith area.

That doesn't make it impossible to work with. Just more of a challenge sometimes. The wood should settle down once it's dry and you are left filling cracks, machining out warping, inserting butterfly reinforcing etc. If you end up with  a table like Rob shows, it's worth the effort.

[woodworker9]

You can be fairly sure the pith is going to "misbehave" in some way. Warp, split or something. Different species and even different trees react differently. Some wood you can leave the pith in a board and have very little effect. Others you know are going to create a +/- 2" crack somewhere around the pith area.

That doesn't make it impossible to work with. Just more of a challenge sometimes. The wood should settle down once it's dry and you are left filling cracks, machining out warping, inserting butterfly reinforcing etc. If you end up with  a table like Rob shows, it's worth the effort.

I completely agree with this, as I stated earlier.  You can just about guarantee yourself issues down the road.  I've been building and selling custom furniture as a business for 25 years now, and I learned long ago that most customers just don't want those kinds of problems with their furniture.  That's why they're spending the money on custom work.  Some will accept future issues, and even contact you to come fix it.  Others will just think you don't do quality work, and in the long run, that's just bad for business.

I can make any crazy and crappy piece of wood look great when it leaves my shop with enough spit, epoxy mixed with sawdust, and polish.  That's not the issue.  The slab tables always look awesome when finished properly.  The issue occurs 3, 4 or 8 years from now.  I've got customers that buy multiple pieces from me over the years, and I want them to keep coming back.

I think it's easy enough to mill around the pith, if you're starting with the log, and just remove it altogether if you're working with purchased slabs from another source.  Long term, I believe your customers will expect as few problems as possible.....at least if they're like mine.

[tule peak timber]

A couple more "pith " pics. One is a hollow form mantle made from a twisted tree branch. The pith is the focal point of this piece for me . This mantle weighs about 7 pounds ! Another pic is of end matched pith, yet another way of making use of the interesting "flaw " in the slab. The third is the bar top with winding pith figure, always popular . Cheers  Rob

    

  

 

[tule peak timber]

You can be fairly sure the pith is going to "misbehave" in some way. Warp, split or something. Different species and even different trees react differently. Some wood you can leave the pith in a board and have very little effect. Others you know are going to create a +/- 2" crack somewhere around the pith area.

That doesn't make it impossible to work with. Just more of a challenge sometimes. The wood should settle down once it's dry and you are left filling cracks, machining out warping, inserting butterfly reinforcing etc. If you end up with  a table like Rob shows, it's worth the effort.

I completely agree with this, as I stated earlier.  You can just about guarantee yourself issues down the road.  I've been building and selling custom furniture as a business for 25 years now, and I learned long ago that most customers just don't want those kinds of problems with their furniture.  That's why they're spending the money on custom work.  Some will accept future issues, and even contact you to come fix it.  Others will just think you don't do quality work, and in the long run, that's just bad for business.

I can make any crazy and crappy piece of wood look great when it leaves my shop with enough spit, epoxy mixed with sawdust, and polish.  That's not the issue.  The slab tables always look awesome when finished properly.  The issue occurs 3, 4 or 8 years from now.  I've got customers that buy multiple pieces from me over the years, and I want them to keep coming back.

I think it's easy enough to mill around the pith, if you're starting with the log, and just remove it altogether if you're working with purchased slabs from another source.  Long term, I believe your customers will expect as few problems as possible.....at least if they're like mine.

.Woodworker 9, I have to admit that 99.99% of the wood I work with IS "crap". As far as your quarter century of acumen....I have been wood working for 8 years. Heck, I've never even been to a woodworking shop or a sawmill, other than my own. these facts are true !  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) Rob

[woodworker9]

Rob

None of my comments were directed at you or any of your work.  Those slabs you posted pictures of are beautiful.  My comments are always based on my own personal experience with my own work.

I've got a cherry table in my house that I made for my wife.  She loves pieces of wood with a lot of character, much like the pictures you posted of your work.  In 8 years, I have had to re-finish that table twice because the pith, which I mistakenly allowed her to talk me into including, twisted and warped out of the top of the table, cracking it twice,  even after I epoxied the surrounding areas.  I know, from enough of my own bad experiences, that here in the midwest, where we have a huge seasonal change in moisture content from summer to winter, that failures are inevitable.

For my own use, I can repair it as many times as need be.  If I were to sell it to one of my customers, I risk losing them as a customer long term, as I won't be living with them to see it fail, and thus repair it before it becomes a train wreck. 

That is the only reference I make in any of my comments.  MY OWN WORK.  Don't take it personal.  Do whatever works for you, as I'm sure you're going to continue to do. 

Jim asked for help in deciding what to do.  I offered my experiences.  I am going to rely a lot on learning from Jim when it comes to timberframing, as I'm preparing to build a new timberframe home and shop.  I've learned a lot from reading his posts, as well as reading the books he's recommended.

I'm only trying to return the favor to Jim on a topic that I have a lot of experience with.  I've been doing it for a very long time, so I have made plenty of mistakes years ago that I now know never should have been made.  I'm offering my experiences here, in this forum, to those who want to hear about them by reading them.

I have learned, often the hard way, that ignoring the rules of working with wood often comes back to bite me in the end.  I'm just trying to pass that message along.  Items I can make look beautiful today might not fare so well 10 years or 50 years down the road if I ignore certain principal rules about working with wood.

That's how I run my woodworking business.  The best of luck to you with yours.

[tule peak timber]

No doubt the rules are the same here.  Thanks Rob

[drobertson]

There is no doubt this type of work takes years of experience.   I have, and must watch my tone of voice here,  always like the pith section of a log.  It shows the core of tree.  It shows the history from the beginning.  Just my preference.  Never have I worked one to this level of masterpiece perfection.  And my hat is off for sure.

[tule peak timber]

My trade mark entry doors are in quite a few homes in La Quinta and Palm springs . The owners maintain 70-75 degrees inside their homes while outside it is 100-115 degrees. The gardeners may hit the outsides of the doors with sprinklers and of course there is the sun....... I build these "trade mark '' doors from one piece of wood (log) bookmatched to include THE PITH in the panels, and even in the frames, depending.....  Not flat, no two alike, no call backs -so far. Not just a few doors...

  There is a place for pith for me , and that is everywhere ! Cheers  Rob

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

AMAZING! 

[drobertson]

there is a word for this type of work and worker,, bad @$$ and this sums it up.

[Jim_Rogers]

Here is just one of the many wide pine slabs we cut today.



 

I think this one is 33 or 32" wide at 1/3 the distance from the narrow end. It could be 2 1/4" thick or maybe 3" thick. I haven't finished the inventory, yet.

We had some trouble the other day with the chain for the 74" bar being a little too long for the set up and he had to have the chain saw shop take out one link to get it short enough to be able to use the adjusting screws on the saws to tighten it up. We think that he'll have to take out one more link to get it right as the chain was getting a little loose by the end of the day and we were all the way out on both saw's adjusting screw.

The frame we were using is capable of cutting a 55" wide log through and through.

We were using two 880 Stihl chain saws on the bar and it was quite something to do. This was the first time he ran both saws on the bar at the same time. We had some issues with the saws fitting the chain saw mill frame and he'll have to modify it a little to get them to work correctly next time.

Jim Rogers

[drobertson]

That smile pretty much says it all!  nice slab for sure

[tule peak timber]

All right! You are in the table business ! 8) 8)