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One piece table top slab question

Started by Jim_Rogers, October 24, 2014, 11:20:37 PM

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Jim_Rogers

I thought I has asked this question before. I just did a search and can't find it, if I did.

So, here's the question. What thickness should I cut large wide one piece table tops?

I have another FF member and sawmill owner coming over here in a week or so, who's going to bring with him his CSM (chain saw mill). It has a 74' bar, two saw heads, and a 64" cut width.

He and I are going to cut some large logs into "one piece" table top/bar top pieces.

I thought I read here, or asked someone for advice on this. And I thought that I heard or was told that you should make the slabs ( or should I say flitches), round edge pieces of lumber, an inch thick for every foot in width.

So for example a 24" wide piece should be at least 2" thick, a 36" piece should be at least 3" thick, a 48" piece should be at least 4" thick.

In my research of this question, I traveled over to a local antique dealer's store to see some tables he had there with these large one piece table tops. I went there to measure the widths and thickness to see what "looked right" to me. And to see what others were doing/making/selling.

And I took lots of pictures.

The first one I saw was this one:


 

I put my white folding ruler on it so I can see how wide it was:



 

It looks like 28" wide. And although I didn't photograph the ruler on the edge, it appears to be about a 2" thick piece.
I did lay the ruler on the top but didn't photograph that either but this appears to be about 7 and a half feet long.

Next I went to another area where he had a large table with a cast iron lath base:



 

This top was this wide:



 

As you can see 34". And the thickness was



 

About 3" or so.

Next to this was the "half log" bench:



 

The legs were added by just making the ends round and drilling a hole at an angle:



 

I didn't get the thickness of this bench.

In the other room was a very large piece that they are selling as a long coffee table:



 

And it's width is this:



 

24" and the length is this:



 

The 6' ruler is out and it looks like another 3' more so I'd say at least 9' long

The legs were attached with a through tenon that was wedged. I think you can see that in the width picture above.

The thickness on this piece was this:



 

I think it was around 3 1/4".
So this coffee table doesn't follow the rule on width to thickness ratio.

Next to that was another half log bench.
I got the thickness of this one:



 

And you can see from the other photo not too long or too wide. I'm assuming that the legs were attached by the same method.

Near this area was another tall "bar" like table made of a thinner top:



 

And it was this wide:



 

About 31" or maybe 32" wide.
another view:



 

This shows it's about 8' long as the 6' folding rule is out all the way.
Here is the underside:



 

so you could see the leg design. And the edge thickness.
Here is the thickness shot



 

Look like about 1 1/2".
It is my opinion that this is way too thin and doesn't look proportional.

I took all these pictures to show you what I mean when I say we need to make the thickness proportional to the width.
This thin table top looks weird and it could be why it hasn't sold.
The long coffee table is in my opinion too long. And that could be why it hasn't sold. It could be kind of thick as well.

All of the others look right to me and I think they could be used an examples of what can be done with one piece table tops.
Let me know what you think.
Also, it would appear that all of these are pine.

What thickness should these rough sawn slabs be?

Thanks for your advice and comments, in advance.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

woodworker9

Jim

I've built and sold quite a few of this style table.  In my business, I call them a Rustic Farm Table or Rustic Pedestal Table, depending on how the customer wants the base.  I have always tried to stay around 3" thickness (finished and planed) for dining tables, and I always make them out of 2 bookmatched flitch-slabs.  I've never been lucky enough to come across a slab wide enough that made economical sense.

I would not make a 40" to 48" wide table 4" thick.  You'll need a crane to move it.  They're heavy enough and requiring several people at 3" thick, and imho, look very proportionate.

For coffee and end tables of any size, I use 6/4 stock.  Anything thicker looks wrong when it's that close to the floor (19" to 20").

My .02.
03' LT40HD25 Kohler hydraulic w/ accuset
MS 441, MS 290, New Holland L185

brianb88

That's very interesting and your pictures are worth far more than we paid for them.   :)  Thanks for taking the time to post this here Mr. Jim_Rogers!
Measure twice, cut once

stumpy

I've built many large Live-edge thick slab tables for customers. One was a solid slab all the rest have been glue-ups of either two pieces or three.  Below are two examples.  The first is 8' long, 2-1/4" thick and 4'wide.  The second is a conference table 12' long, 4' wide and 1-1/2" thick.  Bottom line is, I don't think there is a hard and fast rule on the ratio of thickness to width.  Especially with live-edge as that gives the illusion of the piece being thicker.

 


 
Woodmizer LT30, NHL785 skidsteer, IH 444 tractor

Jim_Rogers

Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Jim_Rogers

My friend/student of timber framing and also he is a Forestry forum member, name "Upatree" is coming over here tomorrow with his csm (chain saw mill).
We're going to cut some wide slabs and round edge table tops.

I have a 10' long pine log that a customer has picked out. It is 34" diameter at the widest point of the narrow end.



 

above is a picture of it as I was moving it down the driveway from the log pile. to heavy to carry, had to drag it.

Here it is next to the cutting blocks:



 

Here is the butt log of the maple tree that we're going to cut first, up on some logs to make it higher and easier (I hope) with the chain saw mill:



 

And I have another part of this maple tree ready to go up on the block as well.

I hope to get some pictures tomorrow of us cutting these into table top slabs.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

red oaks lumber

i'm looking at the stickerd piles in the background ;) need alot more stickers and keep your dunnage piled onto of the next set,that way the weight is supported from the ground up.  :)
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

drobertson

Nice looking table tops, tables in general!   I thought 3-4" thick would be quite heavy as well,  but stout enough for a dancer!
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Tree Dan

Wow nice tables....It must be fun holding the book mached boards on the jointer.
Wood Mizer LT40HD, Kubota KX71, New Holland LS150, Case TR270
6400 John Deere/with loader,General 20" planer, Stihl 880, Stihl 361, Dolmar 460, Husqvarna 50  and a few shovels,
60" and 30" Log Rite cant hooks, 2 home built Tree Spades, Homemade log splitter

Jim_Rogers

Quote from: red oaks lumber on October 28, 2014, 05:36:40 PM
i'm looking at the stickerd piles in the background ;) need alot more stickers and keep your dunnage piled onto of the next set,that way the weight is supported from the ground up.  :)
most of those piles in the background are either short time storage or low grade oak stock for grade stakes and that doesn't matter if it is stuck right. just apart so it won't freeze together.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

red oaks lumber

it seems funny when ever i point out inadequate stickering  everyone has an excuse for the poor job :) not picking on any one person,it just kills me seeing the time and money and sweat involved to see it not get treated properly.
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

Seaman

Red Oaks, your just a stickler bout stickers! Maybe if some of us stickers would pay more attention to where we stick our stickers, you sticklers wouldn't stick it to us.
Frank
Lucas dedicated slabber
Woodmizer LT40HD
John Deere 5310 W/ FEL
Semper Fi

Don_Papenburg

Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

Jim_Rogers

When I'm milling stock that is going to be stored short term or low grade I only use three stickers per row.
then when I take/sort the stock out of the short term pile and place it in the regular stuck pile I put a sticker every 2' on center. I stick my good lumber right. And recommend to every customer that they stick their lumber leaving my mill yard right.

I'm not making excuses I'm just telling it as it is. Next time I'll blur the background so you can't see it.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

drobertson

robbing a thread here, but, rol has a point,  I have done it all to many times, short term winds up being long term, unless it's for personal use, some folks, many folks just don't know, and it cost in waste. 
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

5quarter

Personally, I don't like thick on any of my tables. as a rule, 6/4 finished thickness is as chunky as I'll go, unless I'm building for a client and he tells me otherwise. I don't saw any timber over 3½ inches unless I'm sawing into cants for later resawing. Keep in mind you'll need some extra thickness as the wood shrinks and moves as it dries. I shoot for at least 1/2" on the wide stuff. leaves plenty of wiggle room to flatten, plane and sand.
Side bar:  I too have short term stacks and only use 3 stickers per layer, if any. I saw lots of oddball stuff and need time to plan my drying strategies. They're only there for a few days, but it saves me from having to deal separately with each log as I'm sawing it, which is a real headache. I dead stack All clients lumber. I had one client that took quite awhile to come pick his lumber. so long that I had to break it down and sticker it before mold set in. His recalcitrance cost him an extra $60.  :snowball:
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

VictorH

Don't want to hijack this thread but had to look up recalcitrance   - good word!

red oaks lumber

i like to point out and stress the importance of proper stickering :)
when sawing if your blade gets dull it causes wavey lumber,you change it .
when sawing if sawdust is left on the lumber, you clean it,
when sawing if your alignement is off, you fix it.
when sawing highly vaulable logs you saw it the best way possible.

after everything you have done to achive optimal results, go one step further and use the same determination and sticker the lumber the very best way possilbe in the most air flow area possible. its really not that hard :)
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

LittleJohn

In regards to thickness, I prefer to cut to "recut-able" thickness, in the event that the buyers do no show up or it does not sell within a certain time frame.  That way I can throw it back on the WM and resaw into 4/4 or what not, if needed.  I also generally stick to about 32" wide, cause that is all that fits on the mill :D

Generally stick to 2-1/8", 3-1/4" or 4-3/8"

Driftless

Question on where to put the pith when sawing thick slabs. 

I am about to slab up some walnut.  Sawing 3" slabs.  I was going to level the pith to the sawmill and then layout the 3" slabs so that the middle slab one has the pith right in the middle of it.  If I sawed the log right in half (right at the pith) I figure the slabs would warp a lot during drying.

What have you guys done in this respect? 

woodworker9

I won't make a table out of a slab that has the pith in it.  Guaranteed failure has been my experience, 25 plus years as a woodworker.

2.5" to 3" thick slab tables are all the rage right now.  If you're making it for yourself, then make it whatever thickness you like.  If you want to sell it to the end user, through a decorator, gallery, or otherwise, a 6/4 thick dining table will sit in my shop forever.  A 3" thick slab top is gone as soon as I'm finished with it.

Just look at sights like Pinterest to see what is selling, and what kitchen designers are putting in all their kitchens.  Don't forget about island countertops, too.

My biggest problem is sourcing the slabs for the right price.  This is why I am desperately trying to find a mill right now.  I've gotta be in control from start to finish to make it profitable.  Otherwise, it's just practice, paying retail for the slabs of wood and going through all the work it takes to build a properly functioning base that won't blow apart in a year, as well as flattening, distressing, and finishing a slab by hand.

With the right clientele list, these tables sell for $3K to $4k, depending on species, and upwards for a really spectacular grain pattern.
03' LT40HD25 Kohler hydraulic w/ accuset
MS 441, MS 290, New Holland L185

tule peak timber

Hi Drift , I always use the pith in making tables and other millwork. Customers love it. On thickness I figure out what the customer traffic will bear and go no thicker. I deal in some woods that need to be slaked after they are dried , so I plan to rough mill quite a bit thicker, then dimension latter. Know where you are going before you set out ! cheers  Rob
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

Jim_Rogers

We cut some slabs today with the CSM and it was quite an experience. I never worked one up close and personal. Especially one that took two chain saw engines.

I'd post some picture or a video or two but I don't want to get "beat up again" about my sticker layout. So until I learn how to "blur out a video background" you'll have to wait.

I do have one picture UPInATree sent me, where I was checking the log for a "tap" and the customer was planing down a ridge with my hand plane.
This slab of maple was around 24" wide and we cut them for him 2 1/4" thick. That is what he wanted. The piece was 10' long, and some of it was spaulted a little.

Jim Rogers



 

We didn't find a tap but we did cut through one piece of metal. Not sure if it was a nail or a bullet, as we didn't dig it out.
The detector did sound off again on the last piece before we made the last cut but we took the risk and cut it anyway and didn't hit whatever it was.

He loved the look of the grain and hopefully he'll take some of it when he comes back next time. He moved a wood stove into his shop/house last weekend and hurt his back and wasn't suppose to be lifting anything.
We gave him the camera duty today, as well as a little hand planing.
He's suppose to send me some pictures of us working the saws.
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

red oaks lumber

jim
its to bad you feel that way, constuctive critizimn is how we learn and grow :) but, if you feel its easier to blur pictures than improve how you sticker lumber. i can't help you
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

Bill Gaiche

Jim, don't blur the photos on my part. I like seeing what others are doing. It may be the same thing I am doing and so it has to be ok for heaven knows I wouldn't do anything out of the ordinary. I like your thread and photos. bg

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