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WM motor brushes

Started by delvis, October 22, 2014, 12:41:19 AM

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delvis

Hey folks.  We're closing in on a thousand hours on our LT40 and it's time to inspect/replace motor brushes.  Can anyone give any advice on buying replacement brushes without breaking the bank?  I am not looking to cheap out on my mill but I believe I should at least do a little research before shelling out $25 to $70 for a set of brushes depending on the motor they go in. 

Our mill is a 2011 LT40HD38.  We haven't even cracked a cover yet, and it would seem brushes would last longer than what the manual recommends, but I want to inspect them at least and see where we're at. 

Any advice on replacement brushes?
If I never saw another board I will at least die happy having spent the last few years working with my dad!

kelLOGg

http://store.eurtonelectric.com/brushes.aspx

is a good bet. I have found they have just about every brush I have ever needed.  Don't know anything about WM parts, though.
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

drobertson

You may find another source other than wmz, but I am thinking it would be easier to go through wmz, this would insure the correct part, the price is fair as well.  plus you can get some other spare parts and save on some shipping.  jmo
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Magicman

I doubt that your motor brushes will show excessive wear.

It has been very seldom when I found "aftermarket" replacement parts cheaper than WM.  The only catch may be shipping.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

delvis

I have used all WM parts since we bought the mill and the prices have been fair but it was still a bit of sticker shock to me to see some of those brush kits costing over $60.  I always thought brushes were reasonably cheap.  Some of these kits are a quarter price of a whole new motor assembly. 

I'm probably just worrying over nothing but we have tried diligently to stay on top of the maintenance on our mill and not let things slide.  I always heard if you take good care of your tools, your tools will take good care of you. 

Thanks again for the advice folks.
If I never saw another board I will at least die happy having spent the last few years working with my dad!

Magicman

Brushes are expensive.  Yes, they have sticker shock.   :o
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

pineywoods

You do NOT want to let the brushes go until they wear completly down to a nub. Doing so will usually trash the commutator and you will suffer some severe sticker shock. The recommendations in the manual are based on many years of experience. Believe them..I concur, getum from wm ahead of time...Money well spent.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

JustinW_NZ

What is the recommended life span on those just out of interest?

Cheers
Justin
Gear I run;
Woodmizer LT40 Super, Treefarmer C4D, 10ton wheel loader.

Brucer

Here's my experience with WM motor brushes ...

Up/Down motor: life expectancy = 1000 hours. Checked at 1000 and 2000 hours - still good.

Power feed motor: life expectancy = 750 hours. Checked at 750, 1500, 2170 hours - still good.

Hydraulic pump motor: life expectancy = 750 hours. Checked at 750, 1500, 2170 hours. Replaced at 2170. They still had plenty of life in them but I wasn't sure they'd last for another 750 hours.

"Still good" means there is lots of life left -- enough to take me to the next inspection with room to spare.

Keep in mind that there lots of factors that affect brush life, so your "mileage" may vary considerably.

PS: I always by WM spare parts. Just because :).
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

MartyParsons

Hello,
Here are some cost for the brush kits for the LT40HDG38. I am not sure when the last time I have replaced a motor brush for a customer or even seen a failure. The hydraulic pump motor brush is the most common purchase for a customer. If the customer is pro active on the hydraulic pump motor and clean and inspect the motor brush at 750 hours the life of these brushes is extended.


  • up down motor and power feed motor brush kit Part # 061794 $ 56.50
  • Hydraulic motor brush kit Part # 038682 $ 67.67
  • Blade guide arm motor and in/out Debarker motor brush kit # P12800$ 25.25 (This includes the end cap.)
  • Debarker motor brush kit # 024167 $ 42.42

  • Auto CLutch Motor brush Kit # 034002 $ 24.36


I would think if you did the math even if you did replace the brushes at 1000 hours they would be very low cost per hour.

Hope this helps.

Marty
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

terrifictimbersllc

Marty, are there brush length specs on LT-40 auto clutch and blade guide in/out motors?
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

MartyParsons

Hello,
I did check the manual for the brush length for the Auto clutch motor and the blade guide arm motor. I did not find it. I did list the part # for the brush kit for the auto clutch.
I can honestly say I have never removed the blade guide arm motor and said hey we need to replace the brushes. Most blade guide arm brushes replacements are from a new tail man banging the material off the brush end of the motor and smashing the wires breaking them off.  :o  If you have a little time you can repair this in the field.

Thanks,

Marty
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

delvis

Quote from: MartyParsons on October 23, 2014, 08:10:25 AM
Hello,
Here are some cost for the brush kits for the LT40HDG38. I am not sure when the last time I have replaced a motor brush for a customer or even seen a failure. The hydraulic pump motor brush is the most common purchase for a customer. If the customer is pro active on the hydraulic pump motor and clean and inspect the motor brush at 750 hours the life of these brushes is extended.


Marty, 
Our mill is a 2011 LT40HD38.  Where can I find how to check/pull the hydraulic pump motor so we can inspect and clean the brushes?  I am fairly green when it comes to electric motor servicing and don't want to mess something up trying to keep it maintained. 

I will plan on buying the WM kits when the time comes.  We checked the debarker brushes the other day and they were fine.  We'll be checking the rest of them the first of the week.

Thanks,
Mike
If I never saw another board I will at least die happy having spent the last few years working with my dad!

MartyParsons

    Hello,

    • There are two wires on the motor. One comes from the solenoid the other is a ground. Remove both wires. .
    • There are two bolts that go through the motor into the pump. Unscrew the bolts, you don't need to remove the bolts at this point

    • You may want to put a mark on the pump and the motor to relocate the motor in the proper location.
    • Once the bolts are loose wiggle the motor loose from the pump. ( some customers remove the complete unit) I remove just the motor. Note the orientation of the pump drive and the motor end. 
    • Remove the ground wire at the brush end of the motor, this stud is part of the brush holder. If you have not removed the motor bolts do it now.
    • Next remove the end cap, it will not just fall off and if you force it off you will damage or break the brush holder. You will need to pry, bump and lightly force the end cap off. You can pull the armature out of the motor before you attempt to remove the end cap.
    • You should have the motor dissembled at this point. You can clean the motor with electric motor cleaner. Compressed Air would not be a good idea. Check the brush and holder. 
    • Reverse this to resemble.
    • Putting the motor back on. You must have the male and female ends aligned. Pump will be damaged if you install the bolts and tighten them without the motor being properly aligned.
    • Hope this helps.
    Marty
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

Peter Drouin

Marty, why not compressed air to clean the motor?
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

delvis

Thank you all for the great replies and guidance.  As I said before, we take pride in our mill and what we do and I don't want to try and go the cheap route if it may lead to headache and heartache down the road.

Marty, thank you especially for the break down on the hydraulic pump motor inspection.  That is much appreciated.
If I never saw another board I will at least die happy having spent the last few years working with my dad!

PC-Urban-Sawyer

Quote from: Peter Drouin on October 26, 2014, 07:26:48 PM
Marty, why not compressed air to clean the motor?

It would tend to drive the carbon dust into the windings. This could lead to them shorting out in service.  Result = magic smoke gets released, motor quits motoring...

Herb

Peter Drouin

Quote from: PC-Urban-Sawyer on October 27, 2014, 11:26:15 AM
Quote from: Peter Drouin on October 26, 2014, 07:26:48 PM
Marty, why not compressed air to clean the motor?

It would tend to drive the carbon dust into the windings. This could lead to them shorting out in service.  Result = magic smoke gets released, motor quits motoring...

Herb




smiley_thumbsup
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Magicman

Marty's description above is very good. 

I unbolt the hydraulic control levers and tie them up and out of the way.  Having to deal with two hydraulic pump motors I need a bit more room.   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

MartyParsons

Hello,
That black dust goes every where, including your lungs. I have done it and coughed up black stuff all day.

This is not recommneded but I take the motor parts and wash them in hot water. I also dry them right away after cleaning.

Marty
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

OlJarhead

Quote from: Brucer on October 22, 2014, 11:05:11 PM
Hydraulic pump motor: life expectancy = 750 hours. Checked at 750, 1500, 2170 hours. Replaced at 2170. They still had plenty of life in them but I wasn't sure they'd last for another 750 hours.
OK, this has me scratching my head.
If I read that right you checked them (how?) at 750hrs and only replaced at 2170?  Or did the brushes at 750hrs and replaced the motor at 2170?
I'm at 660hrs and having trouble that I've decided has to be the brushes since I can't see any other issue after testing.
I'm getting 12.5v across the battery terminals and 12.5v from batt - to power bar on the frame.  I get a drop to 11.9v between Batt - and the Power Bar after replacing the copper block on the head and adjust so the bracket is square to the head and the block has to 'bump' up onto the bar (noticeable click) to make contact.
I've also drained and flushed the Hydraulic fluid and replace said fluid with new filter.
My problem:  When I hit any of the hydraulic controls I most often get a whine and hesitation in the hydraulics.  Sometimes it kicks in but often it doesn't.  Once it kicks in it works 'fine' except under testing I find it's about 10 to 15% slower than it was in July (one of the benefits of being a youtuber that films stuff like that and can time it).
So, am I right?  Brushes?  I've been testing with James in Wood Village but he's on the road this week and I just ordered the brushes (I'd need them sooner or later anyway)....
Thanks!
2016 LT40HD26 and Mahindra 5010 W/FEL WM Hundred Thousand BF Club Member

barbender

That sounds more like you're microswitch is turning the pump on, before the function is engaged. There are set screws  on the valve to adjust that, some of them are kind of a bear to access.
Too many irons in the fire

OlJarhead

I was wondering about that. 

But all of them?  Doesn't matter which lever I push or pull it can happen though it does appear some of worse than others perhaps...but they all do it.
2016 LT40HD26 and Mahindra 5010 W/FEL WM Hundred Thousand BF Club Member

OlJarhead

I'll take this over to my thread ;) Instead of highjacking this one :D  But I think I might have something to test!
2016 LT40HD26 and Mahindra 5010 W/FEL WM Hundred Thousand BF Club Member

LeeB

I agree on the micro switches, and lean toward the main one and not an individual switch. Each handle has a switch for it's seperate function but there is also a switch that energizes the pump/pumps. 
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

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