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My cant is not square, how to fix?

Started by RM Farm, October 21, 2014, 09:37:00 AM

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RM Farm

Good morning all. I am new to the site and milling altogether. I need some insight as to why my cant is for examples sake is 6x5 on one end and 6 1/2 x 5 1/2 on the other. Checked for level, all within the bubble, and blade is sharp and no apparent waves in the cut. Am I missing something? I feel like I must be. Any help would be greatly appreciated :) Robert
Thanks, Robert

Woodland Mills HM126; Kubota L3200 with FEL, quick attach forks.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Which dimension is the one you want? Is your measurement rising or falling?
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

RM Farm

Hello PostonLT40HD,

From the saw head to the end is rising. I just checked level again and it was off a little, so got it back better. It's still off a bit. I have not been particular as to which end of the log goes closet to the head. Does that make a difference? Could I be trying to cut too fast?

Thanks,
Robert
Thanks, Robert

Woodland Mills HM126; Kubota L3200 with FEL, quick attach forks.

LeeB

What kind of mil do you have. That might also help us to help you figure out what is wrong. Is it a gradual and even taper down the length of the cant or is it just flaring toward the end of the cut? Is the end of the cant supported over a bunk or not? Could be that the cant is moving. Have you measured from the blade to the bunks all the way down the saw to make sure the bunks are all parallel to the blade? Have you noticed this on more than one cant and is the difference consistant?
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

RM Farm

Hello LeeB,

It's a Woodland Mills HM 126. Yes it is gradual down the cut. You gave me something to check though. I will check the saw height at each bunk, and make sure the log is supported at both ends. Thanks for the insight. :) Robert
Thanks, Robert

Woodland Mills HM126; Kubota L3200 with FEL, quick attach forks.

LeeB

I'm not familiar with your mill, but I would think if it is an even taper that the front, or starting end, of the log must be higher than the tail end. If you make 4 cuts and end up with 1/2" difference, that would only be 1/4" raised on leading end. ( 1/4" on the first cut + 1/4" on the flip side cut ) That small of an amount can be hard to see.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Joe Hillmann

Quote from: LeeB on October 21, 2014, 12:25:24 PM
I'm not familiar with your mill, but I would think if it is an even taper that the front, or starting end, of the log must be higher than the tail end. If you make 4 cuts and end up with 1/2" difference, that would only be 1/4" raised on leading end. ( 1/4" on the first cut + 1/4" on the flip side cut ) That small of an amount can be hard to see.

If it is an even taper the half inch is all in one cut, it doesn't compound with multiple cuts.  If the taper was only in the last foot or so then it may compound by cutting from both sides of the cant.

LeeB

'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

RM Farm

Hey guys, thanks for the insight. After further review, it appears that the track is level. I measured the band to bunk distance, all good. I then put a level on the band and move the saw along the track. Starts out level and about midway it starts to leave the bubble, so I am leaning towards my track being slightly out of line somewhere. Back to the drawing board. arteest-smiley
Thanks, Robert

Woodland Mills HM126; Kubota L3200 with FEL, quick attach forks.

terrifictimbersllc

This took me a little while to get.  Like 12 years.  Not sure it is what you have, but maybe.   You don't say how long your cant is.  The longer, the more likely.

A sawmill properly aligned cuts parallel to the bed rails.   But what if it is curved over the length of the bed?  You'll get a curved cut over the length of the board or cant.  This doesn't affect the thickness of a flexible board that lays flat on the bunks.   But a rigid cant is different.  If it is flat on the bunks, and the mill bed has a crown in it, and you've just made a cut across the top, then you get a cant that is thicker in the middle and thinner on the ends.  Once you flip that over, if there's no flex, it will be off the rails and you'll wonder what the heck.  Make another cut and the difference is amplified by 2.  (Very important note--due to stresses, cants often move during sawing, which can also obscure what is happening--not talking about this here)

These effects from flexibility of the main rail commonly happens on my LT-40, my sawing being 100% portable with a new setup at every job, when I don't take pains to jack the rail straight.   I can see whether it is straight or crowned by sighting down the main rail from the end.  I usually fix it by jacking the last two jacks with shims if necessary,  so that the rail is straight.  It would be easier if I had the fine adjust outriggers on my mill, but I don't (yet).  If you've got a stationary bed you should be able to see this by eye.  I suspect putting 1/4" shims under at each end will correct most of the problem (if this is what you've got).  A key observation is that the thickness of 1" boards is perfectly uniform, but that of heavy  timbers is not. 
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

RM Farm

Hello terrifictimbersllc,

Thanks for that info, it makes perfect sense. I discovered that I have a little twist in the track. Will readjust the rail mount, shim if necessary and put a few screws down to stop it from walking so much. The mills is in a  temporary location, I hope to have it on a slab soon.
thanks again!
Robert
Thanks, Robert

Woodland Mills HM126; Kubota L3200 with FEL, quick attach forks.

StimW

Using string to check bunk alignment is the  easy way.
Also I have found using a short piece of wood for a gauge to check blade to bunk distance is easier than a tape.
I have been cutting 16' + pine and I start cutting at the big end.
I measure both ends and then shim the small end to the bunk so the center height is the same. I cut down until I get a full cant making shorter boards until I get there.
I'm new and have a manual mill but it is working for me.
New HF Band Mill
Branson 35 hp 4 WD Diesel Tractor W/Attachments- Backhoe, FEL W/ Bucket or Forks, 4' Tiller
4000# Clark Forklift W/24" Tires
Promark 6" Brush chipper W/18 hp Kohler

RM Farm

Hello StimW,

I own a manual mill as well, and have been sawing some 14+ foot pine. I like the string and block idea. I give that a try when I get my next few days off. 

Thanks, Robert

Woodland Mills HM126; Kubota L3200 with FEL, quick attach forks.

Sawyer4fun

Hi RM Farm,

I also have an HM 126 and have had some cuts climb up when I have forgotten to engage the cams to hold the head in place. It might be a good idea to check how tight they hold, they may just be loose.

If the track is out of alignment it could ride a bit higher but a bigger concern could be that it jumps the track (almost had that happen to me).
Woodland Mills HM126, grew up visiting my Grandfather's mill and always loved the smell of sawdust :)

RM Farm

Hello Sawyer4fun,
Hope your enjoying your mill as much as I am. I have checked the locking cams, all good there. I have not had any close calls with it jumping the track, not looking for any either. It really looks like it's going to be in the leveling, most likely in the area of the track extension.  :)
Thanks, Robert

Woodland Mills HM126; Kubota L3200 with FEL, quick attach forks.

Sawyer4fun

Hey RM Farm,

Yes, I am really enjoying the HM126, I have had no issues so far ... cuts well and easy to maintain.  And, I have made a few tweaks like flipping the throttle handle to the outside to make it easier to walk along as well as a winch system to load and flip logs. 

Forgot about the levelling of the sections, I think you are right in that they slowly slope off ... hope that fixes it :)
Woodland Mills HM126, grew up visiting my Grandfather's mill and always loved the smell of sawdust :)

Magicman

Hello RM Farm.  Looks like you came on board while I was off traveling.  Welcome to the Forestry Forum.   8)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

RM Farm

Hello Magicman,

Thanks for the welcome. Hope your travels went well.

Sawyer4fun, I haven't had any issues with my mill either, runs flawlessly. I figured out my leveling issue and it's doing great. I thought about moving my throttle around as well, just haven't gotten that far yet.

I want to thank everyone for their insight and suggestions. I have used them all in checking and rechecking the level of the mill. This is a great forum with a unlimited supply of knowledge and experience. Y'all keep on making sawdust!!!
Thanks, Robert

Woodland Mills HM126; Kubota L3200 with FEL, quick attach forks.

Sawyer4fun

Hey RM Farm, glad to hear you got the level issue figured out.  Flipping the handle was real easy, just 1 new hole to drill.  I am also going to be adding some Teflon inserts to the log stops as I find logs will catch on the open edge.  Or maybe add a roller.

Just a couple minor tweaks :)
   
Woodland Mills HM126, grew up visiting my Grandfather's mill and always loved the smell of sawdust :)

StimW

Quote from: Sawyer4fun on October 24, 2014, 07:07:59 PM
Hey RM Farm, glad to hear you got the level issue figured out.  Flipping the handle was real easy, just 1 new hole to drill.  I am also going to be adding some Teflon inserts to the log stops as I find logs will catch on the open edge.  Or maybe add a roller.

Just a couple minor tweaks :)


I didn't like the 1/8" stand off that the plates on top of my log stops caused so I put them on my milling machine and cut the bottom edge off so it is flush. Logs turn easier too.
New HF Band Mill
Branson 35 hp 4 WD Diesel Tractor W/Attachments- Backhoe, FEL W/ Bucket or Forks, 4' Tiller
4000# Clark Forklift W/24" Tires
Promark 6" Brush chipper W/18 hp Kohler

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