What welder for building a mill?

[slider32]

Hi, been lurking for a bit, First post.

I am interested in building myself a small mill, I haven't 100% decided if it will be a bandmill, or a chainsaw mill on a track, but that decision will be sorted out later.

Right now I need to figure out what sort of welder I should buy.  I have an extremely limited budget, so I will not even be entertaining thoughts of high end gear.  Being in Canada also means choices are a bit more limited, and prices are generally higher.

I have done stick welding in the past, so I am familiar with it, but the compact size of the small mig/fluxcore machines is attractive, along with their electrical requirements.

The Lincoln MIG Pak 140 is currently on sale at Canadian tire for $499 but this is the absolute top of my price range, Ideally I would rather spend half of that, and have some money left for steel to build the mill.

For anyone who has done the DIY mill thing, what did you use for a welder?

[Magicman]

First, Welcome to the Forestry Forum.   

I have both a Lincoln stick and a Hobart MIG.  Without question, I choose the MIG.  (I have never built a sawmill.)

[york]

Hi and welcome.....
I also have an Lincoln stick and the Lincoln 180 mig...nothing wrong with the Hobart line of welders either,you can see them at tractor supply.....

[mad murdock]

Welcome slider32!  If you already know stick welding, I would suggest "stick"ing with it ;) especially if you are on a budget, since you already have the buzz box, you can spend the money towards other things like hydraulics on the mill, or what have you.

[woodworker9]

Welcome slider32!  If you already know stick welding, I would suggest "stick"ing with it ;) especially if you are on a budget, since you already have the buzz box, you can spend the money towards other things like hydraulics on the mill, or what have you.

I wholeheartedly concur.  Why would you want to throw more money at equipment when you already have stick welding capabilities?  I weld a lot in my work, and I have both stick and mig welders.  Everything you're going to be welding on a mill is going to be laid out right in front of you, so why not just use the stick welder?  If you were going to have to be a contortionist, or hang upside down, or something crazy in a tight space, the mig gun is ideal, but for simple fabrication work, laying a bead with a stick welder is is going to be quite sufficient. 

It doesn't sound like you would use it much for anything else, as you sound like a very occasional user.  Spend the money on hydraulics!.....or something else you need.

[slider32]

To be clear, I don't currently have a welder.  I have used stick welders in the past at work so I know how to use one.

[kelLOGg]

I didn't build my mill but I certainly extensively modified it and a trailer for moving logs..all with a 40 year old Century AC stick welder. Sawmilling requires heavy steel so I didn't need the capability of welding thin (<0.125") stuff.
Bob

[Magicman]

You may consider a used welder.  There is nothing wrong with pawn shop hopping.

[Larry]

I have a Lincoln stick welder and a Hobart 187 mig.  With your budget concerns I would stick with a Lincoln buzz box stick welder.  They are often on craigslist here right at $150 and sometimes cheaper.  I bought my Lincoln 35 years ago and have used it hard with zero problems...well I did have to squirt oil on the fan bushing a couple of times.

My reasoning is the Lincoln 140 mig doesn't have enough amperage to insure proper penetration (and strength) on heavier steel used for bandmills.  Especially for somebody new to mig.  I'm sure some will scream it has plenty of power.  They can indeed lay down an impressive bead but ask em how many welds they have cut open to check there penetration?

[Tree Dan]

A used stick welder would be good for you since you can stick weld.
The Can tire machine that your looking at will do the job too.
Have fun with your mill build... and welcome to the forum

[WmFritz]

Like Larry, I bought a Lincoln buzz box about the same time as he did. I got many projects and repairs done with that unit. I bought a a Miller 150 twenty years ago and the buzz box hasn't been used since. I've kept it around in case of a cast iron repair, but none have come around.

I used mostly 3/8 steel in my mill build, which is about the limit for my 150.

[uler3161]

I'm definitely more of a MIG guy. I have a Miller 210, but that's outside your budget. I second the idea about going to the pawn shops. And my opinion is to stay away from the flux cored wire feeders. I've never been able to weld good with the little one we bought. We had a nice smaller Hobart MIG when I was in high school. Everyone wanted to use it. It was a good machine.

[thecfarm]

I use flux core,but I don't have a place to weld inside. I thought,maybe wrong,that's it's hard to weld out in the open with gas,without putting something around the welding area. I have a Lincoln that runs off 220. I wouldn't give it a thought about using it to build a sawmill. I had one that used 110.

[goose63]

 

  Welcome slider32 to the F F
I dident build my mill but did build then trailer under it


 
its a 110 ac welder think I paid  $450 for it don't like the flux core I use hard wile with argon gas it dose a real good job up to 3/8 inch stuff

[tjhammer]

welcome slider 32 I have a Lincoln portable gas also a mig and a buzz box I built a mill with mostly the use of the buzz box  you can pick up a used one reasonable, every time I have a little job to do I go for the buzz box  because its easy to set up,  luck on whatever you decide to build ???
tj

[Banjo picker]

I personally use a Miller 225G , but I also have a little Lincoln mig machine.  I had a 110 buzz box years ago, it did a pretty good job for a little money... The mig I have uses gas but it still won't do what you need done... To get a mig to build a mill you will have to spend quite a bit of money.... On a limited budget, go with the buzz box.  Banjo

[scsmith42]

Welcome Slider, and best of success to you with your planned sawmill build.

Re welders, I think that you're putting the cart before the horse so to speak with trying to buy the welder in advance.  My advice to you is to determine the design for your mill, the materials it will use, and then determine which welder is the most suitable for welding those materials / thicknesses.

I own two stick welders (including an engine driven one), two MIG's,  a TIG, and Oxy-acytelene welding equipment, and I choose which one to use based upon the project needs - not the opposite.

[Corley5]

Pretty hard to beat a Lincoln Tombstone ;D   I don't have a MIG but sure would like one  ;D

[Dave Shepard]

I bought a tombstone at an auction for $25 years ago. A tombstone is a Lincoln IdealArc model. They are a great welder. I would try to find a DC stick welder, the old ones, like the tombstone, are great, and usually very cheap. I don't care for the "buzzbox" welders, especially if they are AC only. They generally don't have very good adjustment.

[downsouth]

I have a miller bobcat 225 gas stick machine. And a Lincoln mig 220v I'm not sure of the amps,maybe 160?  I don't really remember.
  The little Lincoln will weld 3/8 no problem. I would weld thicker material with it ,you just have to bevel your iron a little and lay down a few stringers.
  The mig is a lot faster and cleaner with less grinding and chiping. (I'm talking about a novice stick welder,not someone who welds everyday)
  I use the mig for almost everything . The stick machine I use as a generator.
  Like someone said,get started buying stock and cutting to length. Have a plan first. You may be able to pre cut a lot of stock then rent a machine for a weekend here and there.
Welcome to FF and good luck.

[drobertson]

It depends on the thickness of your beams and cross members.  MY Hobart 140 goes to around 1/4" stuff, and as one previously mentioned, stay away for the flux core, more cost, good for windy conditions,(kinda) but the stick would be the way to go, if you can run a bead.  The price of all filler rods and spools are getting out of control so this is another factor, on top of getting a lease or buying a bottle of 75/25.   Good joints are as you know the most critical.  Sounds like fun, just not doing it on a tight budget, very doable with time and patience.

[ozarkgem]

I like mig but your budget sounds like stick to me. I would not go with a 110 unit. I don't think you will get the penetration you need. A used buzz box will do a good job for you. I have 2 buzz  boxe's , Miller 44g portable and a Hobart Mig. I use them all depending on the job. But if I had to have just one it would be a stick.

[Hilltop366]

Welcome slider32, I'm just down the road a few hours in Yarmouth Co., lots of good tips on welders here, will you be welding inside or outside?

I have had a Lincoln AC 225  (also on sale for $299 @ can tire) for years it has served me well but given a choice a DC welder would be nice for stick. The 120 volt Mig I got a few years ago works well with gas (no big fan of the flux core) on the thinner stuff and will do the job on 3/16 or 1/4" steel but it will be pushing it to the upper limits of it's duty cycle.

The handiest thing that I bought a few years ago was a auto darken helmet.

[sawmilllawyer]

Lots of great advice given above. Picked up an auto dark hood this summer and wow what a difference it makes. I can locate where I need to weld with ease as opposed to the old No. 9 or 10 lens where you can't see until the arc is struck.  Also a stick welder can be picked up very reasonable at a garage sale. I have two Lincoln tombstones, picked up the last one for $45.00 at a garage sale. A thermo-arc portable on a trailer powered by a 20 hp Honda and a Lincoln MIg. Mig is great on thin stuff but Go with the stick.

[JB Griffin]

I have a older (around a '96 model I think)Century 220v 160 amp mig I pick up from the local gunsmith after he gave up trying to weld aluminum with it and bought a tig for $200 runnin flux core right now as I don't have a bottle right now, and a ancient Marquette 180 amp AC "farm welder" thats so old it don't have a knob or dial to adjust the amperage you pull out the work lead and move it up or down a hole or two to make it run hotter or cooler.

A used 160 amp or bigger mig would be my choice, but I wouldn't over a stick machine at all. If you end up with an AC stick machine look for Forney 7018ac rods with BLACK letters on them they run almost as smooth as 7018 runnin reverse polarity DC, the red letter 7018 AC rods not so much.

Just my 2 cents but I am NOT a pro welder at any stretch. ;D

[slider]

Welcome slider32 you might be my kinfolk.They have about covered the welders but good luck on your project.

[delvis]

Based on your budget, I would say buy something like a Lincoln 'tombstone' welder and run rods.  I have a mig welder close to your price range and while I love how easy it is to use, it is limited to what it can weld for thickness and how long it can weld for on its duty cycle.  Now, if you drop some real coin you can get a mig that will weld up to 3/4 plate in one pass but you're talking a lot more money than you want to spend. 

Go with the stick welder and anything really thin that needs to be welded, hire it out once you have the money. 

[Buffer]

I have had a Lincoln 180 AC Stick for 35 years, bought it for $75 used. Still works fine. Last year I bought a Lincoln 180 MIG, love it, but nothing wrong with the Stick.

[36 coupe]

I have one question,do you have the skill it will take to build a band mill?I have been welding since the mid 50s but the distortion you get when welding would make me think twice before I tried building a sawmill.I would never use a 140 mig on a saw mill build.It takes more than a welder to build projects.Big drill press, power hack saw, clamps and a level spot to set up the frame for welding.

[Joe Hillmann]

I have one question,do you have the skill it will take to build a band mill?I have been welding since the mid 50s but the distortion you get when welding would make me think twice before I tried building a sawmill.I would never use a 140 mig on a saw mill build.It takes more than a welder to build projects.Big drill press, power hack saw, clamps and a level spot to set up the frame for welding.

Not trying to step on anyone's toes here but, if, when you design the mill you keep in mind what tools you  have available and how you build it you can get by with a hack saw, a welder and a hand held electric drill.  That is pretty much what I used to build the head of my saw and I stepped up to doing the cutting with an angle grinder when I made the bed.

[StimW]

If you have a Sailboat then buy a MIG and keep it on the boat. You will be guaranteed that the wind will blow!!

[slider32]

Well, some good advice here, and some that has me scratching my head and wondering why I bothered to ask the question.

This will be a small mill, sized to cut logs I can either move/roll by hand with a cant hook, or a hand crank winch, so any suggestions of hydraulics are out.  I realize a lot of guys here are production millers and do this for a living, but that isn't my intention at all, this is just an offshoot of my woodworking hobby.

As far as skills, This is a learning experience for me yes, but I am building a small sawmill, not a precision engineered component for the space shuttle. 

With The addition of a welder and maybe an abrasive cutoff saw, I will have everything I need to giter done.

[Joe Hillmann]

This will be a small mill, sized to cut logs I can either move/roll by hand with a cant hook, or a hand crank winch.

That was my plan when I built my mill.  I built my mill so it could handle a 32" log.  I figured that would be WAY bigger than I would ever have a use for.  Before the mill was finished I bought a cheap tractor and now it isn't uncommon for me to have logs that are too large to fit on my mill.  I'm just saying this to suggest you build it with more capacity than you think you will need.

[backwoods sawyer]

I am building a small sawmill, not a precision engineered component for the space shuttle. 

Keep in mind while building the sawmill that the more presice everything is engineered the more you will be smiling as you shuffle thru the sawdust in your space 8)
You don't want to giter done and find you have a rocking horse either.

I can burn a stick all day long laying down a wear bead, but when it comes to taking the twist out of a cage that was square when you started welding but the heat distorted it well that is where the skill comes in.

The previous owner of the Cooks mill did not like the bolt on conection for the bed exstention, so they welded it solid. In doing so the heat generated a bow that raised one corner of the bed exstention up about an inch their getit done solution was to park the head on the exstention and start cutting down thru the rail, and the 4x8 tube frame with a sawsall until the bed set down :-\

The previous owner of the WM used a buzz box and welded from three feet away resulting in alo t of splatter but not much penitration.

You know what your skills are going into the project and nothing wrong with learning a few new ones along the way as they may come in handy later ;)

[beenthere]

slider32
Wish you well on your build. And take a look at this video recently posted of "Ralph" and his build over the years.
As long as it is fun building... which may be the best part of doing it yourself as you go.

http://www.abc.net.au/landline/content/2014/s4109955.htm

[Tree Dan]

Yes I must agree with some of the others here... the fitting is the tricky part...It takes many years to get good at it....Its not the mater of just welding steel its the way you fit your material and know what to use.
By the way there is no such thing as penetration on this type of build also there is no such thing as splatter in the welding .
If you know how to fit and weld that CT machine will work for a home built mill.
If you think down the road that you would like to weld more stuff and your doing more of it go for a 220 volt mig...Miller or Lincoln...stick is ok but its old school Mig is the way to go...get one a bit bigger than you need for now if you can and just cry once.

[Swatson]

I use a mig welder for just about everything.  I use shielded wire anymore with no gas.  The gas make some mighty pretty welds but it is a long trip from here to exchange bottles.  My mig is only a 120V unit so I have to make adjustments for heavy welds, namely to bevel edges of thick steel, build up the bead with multiple passes, preheat or maybe just by using buttress pieces (increases weldable area).  But 90% of the welds I use building my mill the little mig does just fine.  Mine is a Lincoln and is about 15 yrs old.  The only advice I have is dont ignore the duty cycle too much.  It will eventually catch up to you and start causing issues (like tripping limits).  It would be nice to have an arc welder for the heavy welds but its not an option so I make due, plus I am so used to wire welding that it would be quite a learning curve for me to learn how to feed a stick to the weld. 

[Don_Papenburg]

To keep warping to a minimum weld on the opposite  side the same amount as the first  and weld on the other end the same amount .  Look for a welder on estate / farm sales also . 

[low_48]

When looking at any welder, be sure to check duty cycle. Cheap little machines can be used as little as 2 minutes solid use out of 10 minutes. That machine would need to cool that remaining 8 minutes to not overheat. That would be called a 20% duty cycle. Not bad for repair work, but 2 minutes of run time welding a frame isn't much. You must be able to buy used steel? I'm not sure you couldn't buy a used sawmill for what the tools, steel, parts, and engine would cost. I build a lot of my own stuff, but would not make a sawmill.

[thecfarm]

I have a Lincoln SP-175T. Runs off 220. I don't usually weld for a ½ hour steady. But have welded 15 minutes at a time. But that is not really steady either,due to moving,maybe clamping another piece of metal.I have never had it shut down,because of duty time, on me. The one that use to run of 110 would shut off.

[21incher]

I have a small Lincoln 120 volt MIG for thin material up to 1/8", Miller 210 MIG that is good up to about 3/8" with 1 pass, and a buzz box that will handle anything. All have their uses, but the Miller is my favorite. You may want to find a welder first and get some practice with that units capabilities and see how the materials behave before designing your mill. Materials will move during welding as stated above, but a good design will allow for adjustability in the critical locations. I can't wait to see pics of your build.

[Billbob]

Welcome Slider

I have a Lincoln 140 mig and a Lincoln 225 stick welder.  Like you I learnt on a stick welder.  Eventually started using a mig.  I like both and they both have pros and cons.  The price on the 140 mig that you quoted from CT is an excellent price.  It will be more than enough machine to do the job on the mill.  Once that job is done you will find all sorts of other jobs to do with the welder!
I'm heading to the shed right now to weld up a bed extension for my Woodland HM126.

[36 coupe]

I see 100 used welders on one site.Why buy new?THERES A LOT OF TOOLS FOR SALE NOW.It brings me back to an old saying.Only a fool sells his tools.

[Dave Shepard]

Farm auctions are good places to find old stick welders cheap. I only paid $25 for my Idealarc, and the electrode holder still had a $40 price tag on it.

[slider32]

I see 100 used welders on one site.Why buy new?THERES A LOT OF TOOLS FOR SALE NOW.It brings me back to an old saying.Only a fool sells his tools.

Another old saying, location, location, location.

Where I live the used market for just about anything is a special kind of hell.  There are only 5 welders available on Kijiji in my area(craigslist is almost unknown here) of the 3 that are in my price range, all 2 are for sale for the same price I can buy them for new, and 1 is listed for more than it sells for new.  There is only 1 pawn shop in the area, I have not checked it out yet, but I don't have high hopes.

[york]

Slider32,would you watch this Vid.?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S48kSrN0oNY

[Dave Shepard]

The only complaint I have with Miller is the way too complicated methods for setting them. Lincoln had two knobs, Inches Per Minute, and Volts. Miller has switches under the hood, less than infinitely variable "ranges" on the front and their infamous percentage scale for power. You can get the setting you want, but it's just so complicated. With my Lincoln, you just selected "19 volts" and "350 IPM" and started welding. A friend of mine explained the reason for it. Something about not wanting to build a more expensive machine, so they achieved the settings in a roundabout way.

edit to add: I'm not trying to steer anyone away from Miller. I think they are definitely a high quality machine. My TIG is a Miller and it's older than I am and works perfectly. Wish I could say the same for myself.

[york]

Dave,i was just trying to make a point about Mig welder`s in general,that is all is use now-if Slider was close i would loan him my Lincoln 180,is not a bad machine.....

[36 coupe]

Slider should take a trip to Maine and fill a pickup with 50 buck welders.Back in NS he could sell the welders and buy a mill ready made.Many people buy a new welder and find welding takes a lot of skill and sell the welder fast at a loss.Ive welded with stick and mig, I like the stick better.I have an old stick welder my dad bought in a junk yard for 10 bucks.Its so old its wound with cotton covered wire.Still works fine.My Lincoln 225 cost 93 bucks in 1964.No 800 buck circuit boards to go bad.