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Need advice choosing the right CSM n gear from the get go.

Started by WildernessAU, October 14, 2014, 12:56:31 PM

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WildernessAU

Hey guys, Been browsin, lurkin n searching for a while now. Lotsa good stuff here!
So, I got a ms362cm with a 20" bar.  and I would like to make some rough cut lumber n beams with it to build a little shanty cabin on my mining claim as well as some rustic furniture.
Most of the wood I'll be cutting is Ponderosa and Lodgepole Pine, beetle kill. Some live.  10"-20"dbh
I know the 362 is gonna be underpowered but should get the job done..eventually.
Now I have to choose the right mill that I can grow with, within reason.  I have a feeling that I will want to upgrade at some point but cannot afford to for a while.
I'm wanting ease of set up and use and the ability to cut fairly square boards, with my current saw setup plus a ripping chain. Any suggestions for best bang for buck ripping chain?

Mini Mill- right size but worried about unsupported bar end wander.  Also, have to screw in guide board.
Mk3- looks solid and can grow with it. But what size to get, 24" 30"?  362 says up to 25" bar, saw might not be able to handle that load..?
Logosol timberjig- looks like a lot of setup. Unsupported bar end, tough to get straight cuts.

Can I do from log to planks or dimensional lumber with just one mill?

I'm strongly leaning towards the MK3(but what size) with a ladder or buying the ez rail for first cuts.

Thanks for your help!
D



Grandedog

     Howdy,
   The money difference between buying Granbergs Small Log Mill (unsupported) and their Basic Mill (supported) isn't much when you consider the amount of upgrade. It is also expandable by buying longer rails, and support brackets. It sounds like you're mostly into rough sawn surface. In that case a standard saw chain could give you a surface that works for your applications. I think you should give standard chain a try to see what you think. The Granberg Slabbing Rail Brackets are a great accessory for getting the first cut when chainsaw milling.
Regards
Gregg
Gregg Grande
Left Coast Supplies LLC
1615B South Main Street  Willits, CA 95490
888-995-7307  Ph 707-602-0141                   Fax 707-602-0134  Cell 707-354-3212
E-Mail  gregg@leftcoastsupplies.com   www.leftcoastsupplies.com

Tree Dan

First of all...Welcome to the Forum...I'm sure the more experienced guys can help you out here.
I use the ms361 as my go to saw just like your saw only older.
It should get the job done, I think I would get a longer bar for it for milling.
I did help a friend many yrs ago build a chainsaw mill and he cut a lot of lumber with it for himself...built a 2 story shop and some out buildings around his farm,
I was about the same power saw as you have.
Wood Mizer LT40HD, Kubota KX71, New Holland LS150, Case TR270
6400 John Deere/with loader,General 20" planer, Stihl 880, Stihl 361, Dolmar 460, Husqvarna 50  and a few shovels,
60" and 30" Log Rite cant hooks, 2 home built Tree Spades, Homemade log splitter

celliott

Welcome to the forum!
I can't give you alot of advice, however, FWIW...
I did just get the MK3 alaskan mill. Birthday present from my girlfriend Meghan  8)  I chose a 36" mill. Keep in mind, you can run shorter bars on the bigger mills. Say a 24" on the 36" mill. The size is just the maximum width it will cut. And I actually need a 42" bar (I think) to achieve the maximum 36" cut.
I have a Husqvarna 395xp with a 32" bar. I have a loop of ripping chain I will try, to compare it to standard chisel chain.

To be honest, I still haven't got around to putting the mill together yet  :-\
But I did a bit of research before I got this one, and although I haven't used it yet, I'd recommend the MK3.


Oh, and look for a bigger saw  ;D If you're a stihl guy, older 066, 075\076, 084 etc. No replacement for displacement when it comes to CSM'ing! I have a 385xp and wanted a bigger saw still to mill with. That and I wanted a bigger saw just because  :D
Chris Elliott

Clark 666C cable skidder
Husqvarna and Jonsered pro saws
265rx clearing saw
Professional maple tubing installer and maple sugaring worker, part time logger

piller

I've got a logosol M7 with a Stihl MS660, I use the stihl picco ripping chain from Bailey's.  I've also got the Pferd files and a bar vise, it's easy to sharpen up a chain.  I use 20" and 16" bars, I don't think you need to worry at all about using a 20" bar that is not supported on both ends.   Chain saw milling is not easy or fast but you can get very good results after some practice.  Good luck.

Brucer

I used a Mark III for about 25 years, with a 70 cc powerhead (that would be an MS440, I think). I bought a 30" mill, figuring that anything bigger would overwhelm the saw. Keep in mind that the longer the bar, the more teeth to sharpen. As I recall, I actually had the mill set at 28" wide and eventually I trimmed off the extra couple of inches on the top rails and the handles.

I also drilled and tapped the uprights to accept 1/2" NF bolts, and drilled the bar so I could bolt it directly to the uprights, rather than clamping it. This made it a lot easier to change chains. There's a trick to drilling holes in bars. They're made from air-hardening metal and if you get them even a little to hot that will harden right up and become impossible to drill. You need to use a drill press and place a piece of metal plate at least 1/4" thick under the bar where you are drilling it. This will draw off any heat before it can harden the bar. Drill a small pilot hole, around 3/16" and then drill out the full size hole in one pass, using a very sharp drill.

I made my own ripping chain by taking a regular full comp chain and grinding it directly across (0° angle). When filing, I shimmed the file so it would sit lower in the guide, giving me a hook angle closer to 45° than the usual 80°. I also held the file exactly level when I was filing. I experimented with regular chain and standard ripping chain and found the home-made chain cut much faster and stayed sharp longer. I believe there is a ripping chain out there now that is ground to similar angles, but at 5° instead of 0°.

Make up some hardwood kerf wedges - 1" wide, 2" long, and just a tad thicker than your kerf. Taper one end slightly to make it easy to drive them in. Insert a pair of them every 4 feet or so behind your saw. They'll keep the slab or board from closing down on the chain as it goes around the back of the bar. It makes a much cleaner surface and doesn't waste power.

Make your opening cut flat and level. Open a second face at exactly 90 degrees to it. Take your time and be picky. Use those two flat faces for guides on all subsequent cuts. If I wanted an 8x8, I would set the depth at 8" for the 3rd and fourth faces and saw off the bottom of the log. I've still got a 0.020" x 8" piece of birch in my basement that I sawed off the bottom of a cant ;D.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

mikeb1079

good advice here as usual.  the 362 is small but it'll get you going.  as far as milling chain i respectfully disagree with the advice to use regular chain.  i had much smoother boards with woodland pro milling chain from baileys, and if i recall it wasn't much more than "regular" chain.  just my experience.   :laugh:

also:  be careful!! i started out with a makita 5200 and a homemade alaskan mill.  i now have:  a small bandsaw mill, a woodmizer superhydraulic, a husqvarna 3120, 346, a stihl 066, 075, and the 5200.  soooo.....yeah watch out.   ::) :D :) ;)
that's why you must play di drum...to blow the big guys mind!
homebuilt 16hp mill
99 wm superhydraulic w/42hp kubota

WildernessAU

Thanks for the responses and input guys.  I didn't realize that you could just order larger replacement rails for the MK3 if and when you progress to that point, cool!
I'm sold on the mk3 due to it's stout nature and ease of use.  Plus there are plenty of videos and users to reference for help.
I'm going to try cutting with my 20" bar first and see what I can do with it.  Then if necessary or if I don't want to burn up my 20 slap on a bigger dedicated milling bar. 
Is it possible to run a thinner bar and chain to lessen the kerf and cutting resistance? The little bit gained might be worthwhile on a smaller saw? Probably can but would have to replace the drive sprocket which could be a little sketchy.

If I understand this correctly, the size designation on the mk3 is the maximum cut width? So a 24"mk3 will take a 25" bar? And you'll probably end up with a 20" max cut due to the nose clamp? and a 30"bar would let you cut a 24" max width board?

I'm just thinking that if I don't really plan to cut boards wider that 24" once squared, I could get away with a 24" mill, so not to be swinging around wasted metal.  But the 30" could be slightly more versatile down the road.  The 36" seemed like the way to go at first but that would be crazy overkill if I plan to mill max 2x12 usable boards. 
What do you guys think.

Sorry my post is all over the place. I'm bouncing back and forth watching milling vids and writing this ;)

WildernessAU

Missed the last two posts while typing..
I already know that this new hobby/tool is going to get slightly out of control.  Atleast I will end up with a bunch of good and neat stuff, a new skill and a feeling of satisfaction/accomplishment!

sigidi

I don't chainsaw mill, but I've done a bit of milling and the ast thing you want todo is get part way through a cut and max out...

If you want to run out a bunch of 2x12, then you have to think about the max diameter of your log, you will most likely use logs that will give at least 6, 2x12 so the log will be a minimum diameter 18" at the SMALL end. Logs are never perfect rounds, always have lumps and bumps and ALWAYS taper. If you want 6' long 2x12 then maybe a 30" will see you right, but when you add length to the log, you will certainly add girth - go the 36" mate.

Chain - I've used ripping chain in my lucas slabber and normal crosscut chain in my CS for ripping posts. The bonus of using normalchain for your CS mill is that it can be used to cut your logs as well as mill. If you run slabbing chain with it, then you have to prepare your logs, then swap chains to mill, then swap back if you need to do some other cutting. You can safely run longer bars than the specs on the same powerhead without putting undue wear on your saw by cutting out some of the cutters in the chain. As an example, I cut off every 3rd tooth on my 372XP. The chain on my 1.5m slabber has 2 teeth, then the next 5 cut off and 2 teeth again. As long as your chain ends up being regular, have a play with different combinations. Cut them out using those thin cut off discs on the hand held angle grinder and just cut them off flat on top of the tie straps of your chain.
Always willing to help - Allan

celliott

Well I got my mill assembled tonight. 395xp is all ready to rock and roll (I hope)
Maybe I can make some boards soon!
32" bar, I left the bucking spikes on, and I have about 24" of usable cut width. If I took the spikes off and extended the rails out more on the tip of the bar, I think I could get 28" cut width.
I still say get the 36" mill. You can run a shorter bar on it, whereas with a smaller mill, you can't go bigger.



Chris Elliott

Clark 666C cable skidder
Husqvarna and Jonsered pro saws
265rx clearing saw
Professional maple tubing installer and maple sugaring worker, part time logger

mikeb1079

that's why you must play di drum...to blow the big guys mind!
homebuilt 16hp mill
99 wm superhydraulic w/42hp kubota

celliott

Quote from: mikeb1079 on October 15, 2014, 11:43:18 PM
celliot that should be a nice milling rig   :)

Yup, I think it should too.

I'm excited to get started and make some lumber!
Chris Elliott

Clark 666C cable skidder
Husqvarna and Jonsered pro saws
265rx clearing saw
Professional maple tubing installer and maple sugaring worker, part time logger

thecfarm

Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

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