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Advice on improving skidder stability ?!? Bought a new to me skidder need tips..

Started by RunningRoot, October 08, 2014, 08:36:12 PM

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RunningRoot

Hey everybody, glad to be apart of the forum ! I have read and learned a lot over the past few months and finally took the time to register !

I am a 27 year old Owner operator of a small logging operation in Ohio. I've been cutting for a little over 2 years now and have progressed steadily. Up untill the last month I have always skidded my timber by dozer, I have a nice little low hour Case 450 Dozer that I have used to skid with and used a case 450 Track loader to load with. With plenty of work ahead and the fact that I have taken on bigger tracts of timber I decided It was time to purchase a skidder.

Last month I purchased a 1980 Tree farmer C4D skidder in good shape, everything works so far and I am really pleased with the hitch it will pull, far more productive then small dozer logging ! 

My problem is the stability of the skidder !! Most of the timber I cut are on hillsides and some you could call cliffs !
I have just about killed myself on this thing several times now and I haven't even attempted the hairy spots yet  :-\
I love the skidder as it is a much needed step up in production but I need to figure out how to get more stability out of it !
So my questions are....

How do I make this tree farmer C4D more stable for hillside operations ?!?

It has 16.9-30 Tires at about 50% ( no chains, looking).
Ford 4 cylinder industrial motor.
4 speed manual trans.

Sorry for long post and thank you for any input in advance. Really look forward to enjoying the forum !
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

JustinW_NZ

Welcome to the forum.

I have the exact same machine by the sounds of it.

you will find that the dozer will work on steep terrain the skidder cant go near.
Im not an expert on these things but im sure someone else will chime in.

Also, wider tires will help, im running the same rubber but only because im using the skidder for production thining type operations so want it narrow to get around things.

Cheers
Justin
Gear I run;
Woodmizer LT40 Super, Treefarmer C4D, 10ton wheel loader.

1270d


RunningRoot

Justin, thanks for the welcome !

I use the dozer on the steepest of ground but when 80% of my tract is steep its as tho I never bought a skidder !

I have had mixed opinions/advice on loading the tires...
Would definitely want to use beat juice if I do load them as have seen what calcium can do..
Does loading the tires on a skidder really help that much ? Was told the cons out weigh the pros ?
I would imagine it would help greatly in my opinion...
Said it would slow it down and cause dramatic power loss with little stability improvement  ?
I have ran plenty of farm tractors with loaded tires and it seemed like a night and day difference but they were always used on flat ground not rocky hillsides in the woods
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

Kodiakmac

Best advice?  Go slowly at first, open your eyes,  and gradually learn the limits of your buggy's stability. 

Just because of the nature of your post I think you might be too impatient to do that.  And that's a pity.

I've been a skidder jockey for 40 years only because I learned and respected the laws of gravity. 

Robin Hood had it just about right:  as long as a man has family, friends, deer and beer...he needs very little government!
Kioti rx7320, Wallenstein fx110 winch, Echo CS510, Stihl MS362cm, Stihl 051AV, Wallenstein wx980  Mark 8:36

tom h


coxy

bunch to a good road with the dozer then skid them with the skidder that's what I do

Maine logger88

Keep the blade close to the ground too that helps a lot cause when one of rear tires comes off the ground it will hit and keep you upright
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

thenorthman

weight in the tires works, only slows you down if you use top gear often and if you like me thats only on the highway and only for short sprints.

Skidders where never meant to work steep ground, they are all tippy compared to a cat (dozer) just have to learn to either climb or pull down hill. No side hill foolishness leave that to the cat.

What you can do is bunch with the dozer to a road of sorts then hook on with the skidder and boogie on down to the landing, dozers work fine with short pulls, but as you know they are slow, so the long pulls is where yer new skidder comes into its own. 

Keep the blade low on that skidder, its like a forward wheelie bar, saved my bacon more then a few times.  Better to get temporarily hung up on a stump then to tip over and loose everything.
well that didn't work

redprospector

Welcome RunningRoot.
I agree with Kodiakmack about learning your limitations, and the limitations of your machine.
Now, as far as stability from loading tires. I've got a JD 440b, one of the most "tippy" skidders known to mankind. Since shipping runs the cost of beet juice up way too high here, I filled the back tires with winter blend windshield washer fluid. Made a night and day difference in my book, and I have not seen the con's of doing so. You definitely need chains if you're on that kind of steep ground.
Unless it's just a real small area, anything over 50% grade gets skidded with my little dozer, but only to a place that I can get to it with the skidder. My skidder is good on most anything up to 50%.
My skidders previous owner welded 12" extensions on each end of the blade, which makes the blade the same width as the skidder. Have to get used to it getting around in the trees, but I have caught the skidder with 2 wheels (on one side) in the air, and set it back down with it.
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

RunningRoot

I know I must learn the limitations of my skidder as that's what I'v been attempting to do for the last few weeks,
what I guess I meant to say is I've learned that my skidder's limitations/capabilities are very low and am trying to figure out how to improve them.

Windshield washer fluid ? This i understand as it is 40 alcohol and would not freeze. At about 8 pounds a gallon I am thinking it would add around 400 pounds per tire.

My two closest calls were turning off a level cut trail to head downhill. She tipped forward and to the right side, my blade caught me and was able to push myself back down on all fours. So, I figured if I loaded the rears it would help with this. I have been looking for used chains to put on the front as I didnt want to invest 2500 into them not knowing weather I'd like the results.

When the rear tire(s) come off the ground and the front tilts all the way to one side and bottoms out, do you have any left at that point or will she go on over ? I guess what I'm trying to say is will the front axle stop you from going over ?

Tom H > I would really like to put some 18.4-26's on it but have not found any rims to fit yet..
I have been bunching on the side of my main skid road with the dozer and then going back next day and skidding out with the c4d but have ran into '' tippy '' problems just turning around on the main road.
Timberjacks look much more stable than my girl for some reason. I have seen vids of guys using skidders in mountains and I'm having trouble on my ''Cadillac'' Trails
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

SAnVA

If you decide to fill the tires check some of your local garages for used antifreeze or coolant when I put new tires on my farm tractor I checked a local garage and they gladly gave me 2- 55gal. drums of used antifreeze. If you bust a tire better keep your pets away though!!

BargeMonkey

 All 4 of my 440D's tires are loaded, with a calcium blend and I havent had any issues. None of the little skidders except a 405 franklin are stable, the one I had would go thru the rough stuff and you wouldnt know it. Like "Coxy" said, and I agree 100%, is to bunch to the skidder, thats how everyone around here cutting for production does it.

thenorthman

So each skidder is different, but once the rear is up and you bottom out the front... not a whole lot of wiggle room from there, but it does take a bit to get them past that point.

Turning is one of the easiest ways to roll a skidder, get to much weight off to one side and she'll just flop on over. Of course this is pretty much while pulling, You have to rember the the arch is 7-9' off the ground and ya probably have 10k pounds of drag behind ya or more.

There are tricks to it though, if you know what to expect, but the easiest thing is to drop the load, make the turn and get the arch lined up in a more straight line to the load.  Pulling sideways is a bad idea, something you can get away with in a cat, but not in a skidder.

I've had mine up on 3 wheels unloaded though... confident, cocky...dead... generally in that order.
well that didn't work

Kodiakmac

Quote from: thenorthman on October 08, 2014, 11:14:53 PM
So each skidder is different, but once the rear is up and you bottom out the front... not a whole lot of wiggle room from there, but it does take a bit to get them past that point.

Turning is one of the easiest ways to roll a skidder, get to much weight off to one side and she'll just flop on over. Of course this is pretty much while pulling, You have to rember the the arch is 7-9' off the ground and ya probably have 10k pounds of drag behind ya or more.

There are tricks to it though, if you know what to expect, but the easiest thing is to drop the load, make the turn and get the arch lined up in a more straight line to the load. Pulling sideways is a bad idea, something you can get away with in a cat, but not in a skidder.

I've had mine up on 3 wheels unloaded though... confident, cocky...dead... generally in that order.

Amen!  'nuff said!
Robin Hood had it just about right:  as long as a man has family, friends, deer and beer...he needs very little government!
Kioti rx7320, Wallenstein fx110 winch, Echo CS510, Stihl MS362cm, Stihl 051AV, Wallenstein wx980  Mark 8:36

mikeb1079

Quoteconfident, cocky...dead... generally in that order.

this applies to sooo much more than forestry, and one to remember.   
that's why you must play di drum...to blow the big guys mind!
homebuilt 16hp mill
99 wm superhydraulic w/42hp kubota

Maine logger88

Chains are worth every penny and the only thing better than 2 chains is 4 I am sure you could find a used set tho
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

snowstorm


David-L

RunningRoot, A good E-brake is a must and I always put the blade down when off the machine working on hillsides hitching up chokers. As someone said traveling with the blade low will help also, travel angles should be up and down the hill not so much horizontal till you get the feel of the machine and know it's capability's. I tipped a 440B in the beginning of my wood cutting career and it happened very quick and I was lucky. I would not recommend antifreeze as it is somewhat toxic and around here the wrong person seeing a leak of that could cause an issue with the DEP. Good luck and go slow and don't be afraid to drop a hitch and winch in once and awhile, that is my two cents. good luck.

                                           David l
In two days from now, tomorrow will be yesterday.

HiTech

Many times you can back down a steep grade better than driving down, hook up and drive out. You can take the tires/rims and change sides with them. I took my right front and put it on the front left and the same with the back, put the left side on the right side.  People told me it wouldn't work because the wheel indentations for the lug nuts were facing in. They said the lug nuts would never stay tight. Hasn't been a problem. Went from just under 8' wide to over 8' 9" wide. That is on my C4 with 18.4 x 26 with bear paws all around. Made a world of difference. One thing you will learn...every day is a new experience and every hitch will pull a little different. I work on steep ground and that is one reason I use 9/16" cable 125' long. Many times it is all out getting a tree that would other wise cause a possible tip over. Driving down a steep grade always keep the hitch winched up, it will keep the back from rearing up. Even sometimes while turning you will want to keep the weight on the back. Go slow and learn as you go. Do not be in a big rush to get wood out. Getting a few extra logs out is not worth a tip over or accident.

RunningRoot

I really appreciate all the good advice from experianced skidder operators ! Tganks...
I'm gonna turn my rims around to gain width, load rear tires and try to find some used chains to put on the front.
All the tips on what to watch for are great to ! The one thing I do have is humilidy, the ability to be taught and try someone else's way rather than my own.

I need to work on her brakes as u have to stand on them to engage them. Its wierd tho, they look to be inside the drum rather than a band around the outside like I've seen on here. I will check into them this weekend.
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

pigpen

Welcome runningroot!
   I'm a long ways from you and most on here but tree farmers and brakes don't mix well... what I'm trying to say is the stock brakes on the older tree farmers weren't much. I have a C5D and tried fixing the brakes and so far was a waste of time, they suck! the only ones I've heard of that work decent are those who rigged up a better set up from a car, pickup, etc. Mine even has a caliper set up off of what I'm told was on the forwarders stock and still don't hardly work and when they did shortly after fixing them the caliper would stick or lock up and get things toasty warm!  :D   I'd be very interested to hear of a good brake set up as I'd be happy to improve the brakes on my tree farmer! Stinks without them!!!!! Stay safe!

Maine logger88

So it has a micro lock you stand on the brakes and flip a lever? Whatever you do never trust a micro lock
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

SliverPicker

I found that the F/R shaft seal in the tansfer case leaks directly on to the brake drum and the oil eventually gets on the brake shoes.  You can put in a new seal, but then never last more than about 2 weeks.  I am going to make a shield for mine that will force the drops of oil from the seal to drop out past the brake drum instead of on to it.  The brakes on these things work great to hold you in place, but won't stop you when you are already moving.  Once they get oil soaked they won't do anything (no surprise there!).
Yooper by trade.

Kodiakmac

Robin Hood had it just about right:  as long as a man has family, friends, deer and beer...he needs very little government!
Kioti rx7320, Wallenstein fx110 winch, Echo CS510, Stihl MS362cm, Stihl 051AV, Wallenstein wx980  Mark 8:36

RunningRoot

Thanks for all the advice/input fellas.
It all made a great first post on the forum for me.
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

JustinW_NZ

Quote from: Maine logger88 on October 09, 2014, 10:34:23 AM
So it has a micro lock you stand on the brakes and flip a lever? Whatever you do never trust a micro lock

yes, whats that about, mine needs the brake looking at as like others have said, very poor, but it does have that lock switch as well.
That seems to work, but going down a hill the brakes seem useless...

Cheers
Justin
Gear I run;
Woodmizer LT40 Super, Treefarmer C4D, 10ton wheel loader.

chester_tree _farmah

Wider lower profile tires are what folks usaully do to make the c4s more stable. GA Jones did it to his. Problem is finding rims I think. Loading the exsiting ones will definately help.

254xp
C4B Can-Car Tree Farmer
Ford 1720 4wd loader hoe

ga jones

Ya I bought 4 rims from cj logging that came from a timberjack 205. 18.4x26 flipped them so there at the wide offset. The rims were fairly cheap. 500.00 for the set. Best thing I ever did. I work a little steep ground. The problem with my c4 is short tail section no weight back there. It's on three wheels a lot. You get used to it.In my own opinion tree farmers aren't the machine for steep ground. Timberjack 200 series is. No other skidder is as stable as they are. From what I have worked around.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

Maine logger88

How the micro lock works is when you step down on the brakes and flip the lever it locks the fluid in place holding your brakes on. Which isn't that bad other than they are known too leak off I have heard of people being run over or nearly run over. Use it yes just don't trust it. Ga that 380 of yours must be fairly stable
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

ga jones

18.4x34 on the 380. It's pretty good,be better with 23.1x26. Then it would be to wide to haul though.the mico brake needs power to work. That's the only downfall. Loose wire no brake. Much better than none!
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

chester_tree _farmah

Mine has the old wireless Mico. Wireless as in no wires at all.  :) Needed a new bleeder and the closest was in Texas. ::)
254xp
C4B Can-Car Tree Farmer
Ford 1720 4wd loader hoe

RunningRoot

Ga Jones>
If I flipped my current 16.9-30's around to gain a wider offset would this put undo stress on any bearings in the axle ?
I see 18.4-26's normally mount further within the rim than 16.9's so I imagine it wouldn't hurt anything and then I see floatation tires which mount deep in the rim as well.... What you guys think ?

My plan is to pull her in the shop tomorrow mourning, spend the weekend in there and ...
1 Flip rims around to make wheel base wider.
2 Load rear tires with some used anti that I am getting from a friend that owns a junk yard.
3 Fix brakes ( somehow ) if I can, not sure if linners are even there anymore but will find out when I get the drive shaft and drum off...

Ga, would you think this would be ok ? I mean flipping rims and loading rears ?
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

Maine logger88

79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

RunningRoot

Hey maine>
Yes it is pronounced Mico ...
And mine is the older style as well.. No wires..
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

ga jones

16.9x30 is the same height as 18.4x26. My c4 was a pulp wood special with 18.4x34 and a 353
Detroit. 16.9 is a small tire overall and that ford engine is less hp.u won't hurt the axles due to flipping the rims. What brakes stuff is stacking big hard wood with the blade. Bouncing when u have a full trip.I have rebuilt both axles.Replaced both front spindles. The axles in a c4 are light. Pr52 rockwell. Same as a timberjack 201 205. Don't get ramy with it.mine is from the mid 1960s. It was due to brake some. The brakes are a simple fix if u can fab some and weld. Take the old drum setup out and go to napa find a rotor that close to the same center hole and drill it for the mounting bolts. Get the caliper that matchs it. Make a simple mount for it.mico brake is a line lock. There available at any auto parts house.there used in drag cars for burn outs.get used to it getting up on 3 wheels. It's going to happen. Drop the blade drive through the turn get straight and it will set back down.you will get the feel of it.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

barbender

Mico brake locks aren't meant to be a parking brake. They just hold the service brake, in this instance, so you don't have to stand on the brake pedal the whole time you are winching in a drag. My Mico twist lock doesn't work, I really wish it did.
Too many irons in the fire

coxy

mico brakes locks work the best when they are still in the box un used  :D :D

bill m

The Mico brake lock on my aerial lift worked flawless for the 15+ years that I owned it.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

Ed_K

 I ran brake line up to the dash added a 1/4" ballvalve then down to to caliper. If you try to drive off with it closed, you know it. But on hills I back up to a big tree before setting the brake. And make SURE the tree isn't growing on ledge  :o .
Ed K

RunningRoot

Ga Jones> So I looked it over this mouringing and measured it out, and with my perticular rims, If I flip them around it is gonna make a huge difference on width ! Like taking it from 91'' out to 105''... Do you think this is to wide ??
How wide are your guys skidder wheel base? Would have to cut my roads wider I imagine...
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

ga jones

380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

ga jones

Go to my gallery in the equipment section there 3 pictures of my c4. Look at the one of the right side. U can see how wide it is by how far the rim sticks out past the axle.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

RunningRoot

Ga Jones> You have two nice skidders there ! Like your tree farmer and love your 380. A 350 TJ is my dream machine, meaning the skidder I'm goanna try and purchase over the next year.

Did you cut and re weld your valve stem protectors and holes ? I see they are still on the outside of the rim. Unless they have them on both side of rims, I never paid enough attention on mine. I can imagined this would definitely help with what I am after with my c4, should really increase stability. I am gonna do it tomorrow and see how I like it this week.

I'm used to skidding my timber with my little 450B dozer and its only 7 foot wide  :) So I was worried about land owners gripping about wide roads being cut through the farm. But I would think most other loggers have skidders 105''s + wide and cut their roads to accommodate.
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

timberlinetree

Tree farmer c series do seem a little light in the back end. Our tj 230 super e is wide and would rather pay oversized permit and have stability in the woods. Do you have a seatbelt? They are a pain in the neck but would be a good idea to put it on on steep terrain. Work safe!
I've met Vets who have lived but still lost their lives... Thank a Vet

Family man and loving it :)

RunningRoot

Timberlinetree>
I put a seatbelt (lapbelt) in it yesterday. Took it out of an old cushman flatbed cart I have stored outside the shop.
It didnt have one and I didnt like that to well  :D
whats it cost you to transport your skidder when having to have a oversize permit ?
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

Maine logger88

79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

ga jones

The valve stems were already there I didn't move them. One thing about seat belts. The logger rescue training I had the trainer said it's better if there is no belt than a lap belt that is in most skidders. They do more damage to your body then good.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

terry f

   How many operators wear seat belts, I doubt many, but I don't know. I don't have any, but I did have it on three wheels twice last week, both times was right front while looking back trying to avoid damaging any trees. Once hit a small log, second time a small stump, got my attention.

timberlinetree

In Ct the oversize permit is only around $25-$50 dollars. It's included in the move! I'm not a big fan of seatbelts but they say they saves lives. I always think jumping would be best or hold on but in really the belt will keep you in the cab where it's safer plus just feel a little safer with it on but that just me  I'm a scardy cat on hills and above 60' :o. Stay safe!
I've met Vets who have lived but still lost their lives... Thank a Vet

Family man and loving it :)

BargeMonkey

Someone tell me if im wrong, I dont handle the truck paperwork but in NY my over width permit is a "blanket permit" to 13', after that I think you get into the escort game, its just 1 more fee the state throws on. Ive been close to going over in the skidder, but not yet. I flopped my fathers 410C deere hoe driving home and got over just a little to much for a car coming down the snow covered road, it was over before you know it, you didnt have enough time to react to jump. On top of the TLC logger training, we also have to take a yearly MSHA class with our gravel pit, more and more guys are drowning when working near water, so on top of a back board and full blown medical kit, now we have lifejackets in the office too. The best part is, if MSHA isnt notified within 15mins of a serious injury or death, 10k fine to start, doesnt matter if your performing CPR, better stop and make a phone call.  :D

RunningRoot

What Kinda tire chains would you guys recommend for the C4D ??

Ring style ?
Diamond stud style ?
Any brand ? Go cheap or avoid low cost chains ?
Thickness of tag chain pro/con ?

I work mainly on steep rocky ground, but durring winter its a mix of everything, pastures around here turn to swamps  ::) And my rubber is 16.9-30
Any input/ guidance is appreciated ...   
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

HiTech

I went with ring or bear paws as some call them for all 4 tires. They can be useless on hard ice but normally get me around OK. I prefer a better grade tire chain. Seems they last longer.
Quote from: RunningRoot on October 13, 2014, 11:56:20 PM
What Kinda tire chains would you guys recommend for the C4D ??

Ring style ?
Diamond stud style ?
Any brand ? Go cheap or avoid low cost chains ?
Thickness of tag chain pro/con ?

I work mainly on steep rocky ground, but durring winter its a mix of everything, pastures around here turn to swamps  ::) And my rubber is 16.9-30
Any input/ guidance is appreciated ...   

ga jones

You put chains on all 4 tires of a c4? You will tear planitary's out.I took the chains back off of mine.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

RunningRoot

Ga Jones>
Its been wet here for two weeks now, I jumped on the c4d Sunday and tried to head up the hill and didn't get far before she cam to a stop  :o I was considering putting a pair of chains on the front just for winter. Its a soft muddy mess around here during winter. Would it be alright to put them on the front only? I'm putting the two best tires on the rear, flipping rims out and loading them this week, didn't get to it Sunday as I hoped  :-\

I posted a wanted add for a pair of used chains on here (FF) as I thought for sure someone would have an old pair laying around but have yet to have any luck with it. Thought I could save some money encase they didn't work out.
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

ga jones

If it's muddy I run them on the front. I run ring chains. Your axles most likely have no spin lockers in both front and back. If u put ring chains on both u will more than likely  tear up the no spin or planetary's.look on Craigslist in southern ny for used chains.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

BargeMonkey

 Ive got a set of 18.4x26 you can have, but they are worn pretty good and I dont know what it would take to make them fit 18.4x30. If youve got a few bucks to spend, call Comstock. Dick may even know where there is a used set kicking around.

ga jones

18.4x26 will fit 16.9x30. Comstock had Chinese ring chains at boonville for 1100.00. They looked good.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

RunningRoot

I was thinking that 18.4-26 would fit 16.9-30...

1100 would be a good deal that  I could pursue right now... I'm gonna check into them.. Thanks Ga

Bargemonkey>

I really appreciate the offer, let me check into my options and depending on what I can make happen there's a possibility I may take you up on that. I would be willing to pay you whatever you need for them... I'm gonna do a little more research on them... Its pooring rain here and I'm house bound, Done all I can do in the shop over the last week of rain  ::)
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

RunningRoot

I looked on Comstock's website and couldn't find anything related to skidder accessories or tire chains, Should I call in ? Do they not list everything they deal in on their page ?

And Do ring chains make a good difference when in mud ? I mean, I guess what I'm saying is, do they make a 1000 dollar difference ?
I would think so as A lot of loggers run them, some even all season...
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

beenthere

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

chester_tree _farmah

254xp
C4B Can-Car Tree Farmer
Ford 1720 4wd loader hoe

Maine logger88

Yes even just 1 set of ring or ice ( I prefer ice) would make a huge difference. I run iron on all 4 year round on both my skidders. In my experience rings work better in mud and real deep snow and ice work better for about everything else
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

RunningRoot

 Chester>
I tried to post a pic of her yesterday but couldn't figure out how to post the darn thing  :D
I guess I need to read the board about it... will do that now, hang loose and let me see what I can do real quick
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

BargeMonkey

 Your best bet is to call up to his shop, it will either be Dick, his guy in the shop or his wife, but they all know what your looking for. He stocks alot more stuff than you see on the website. We buy 90% of all our logging supplies from him. Wedges, sawchain, chaps, bars, all comes from him.  I have a set of ice chains, they are worn and I might even have some other chain kicking around you could patch them with, im not looking for anything, they are sitting on a pallet at my mill. If your going to spend some money, but a good set of ring chains and run them on the fronts. TCR.com made me an offer I couldnt refuse on 2 sets this spring, went with the close ring 5/8 and I love them. 200.00 more than regular but no room between the rings. If you can find someone with another single ring chain, I have 1 I found in a log pile a few years ago thats like 90%, I think its 23.1 but you could make a pair for short money.

RunningRoot

 

  

  

  The 6 way 

  The Old Loader

They arnt much but they were all taken good care of, the 450B 6 way is one heck of a nice solid low hour little dozer all she needs is a paint job. The C4D seems so far to be a good tight machine, everything works on her so far. Had to replace a couple seals in the winch and brakes need adjusting but other than that she does the job well but time will tell, she's still new to me. And the 450 trackloader I literally just sold, was offered a good price for it and I could not refuse. Looking to replace the loader as soon as possible but trying to budget for its replacement and get some chains for skidder and other misc. stuff  ::)
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

redprospector

Haha. A man after my own heart. Jump her on the gooseneck and go.  8)
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

RunningRoot

I'm gonna call Comstock In the mourning and see what they can get there hands on. If they have any close to what Ga Jones said I will place a pair on order. Cheapest I'v found was 2,600 buckaroos/pair. I dont think I'm doing a good job researching them tho because I didnt find as many suppliers as I thought would be out there.

So you guys think I'd be best off with ring chains ?
I like the Idea of studded diamond as I log on rocky slopes but winter mud is my main concern as of right now.
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

Maine logger88

If mud is the main concern go with rings. If you can get a tighter ring it will ride better
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

BargeMonkey

2500 for a set of 16.9x30 chains ? Ive got a bridge I wanna try and sell you. Im sure they have a set for 11-1200 for what you want, but if you can, buy the better stuff, the chinese chain kinda scares me. In the mud and rock, ring chains are the way to go, but on hard packed ground at higher speed they will bounce you out of the seat. Ring chains on ice and rock ledge are like ice skates, the combo around here is ring in front, ice in back. Most guys take the ice off for the summer and fall.

David-L

Nice looking skidder Rootman. I would buy the tight rings for the front and single diamonds for the back. TCR have some good chains and free shipping. I have had a few sets and they work and wear well. Just remember that with used tires if you buy new chains you might be cutting a bit off to fit them to used tires and that hurts a little. 9/16 chain is fine for that machine with those planetarys IMO. Good luck, TCR has a good website.

                                           David l
In two days from now, tomorrow will be yesterday.

RunningRoot

Called comstock this mourning and dick wasn't in, the lady I talked to said I would have to talk to him. I am supposed to get a call from him tomorrow mourning. TRC has a set of single diamonds for 1100 and a set of combo ring and stud both for 1500. Has anyone ever used the combo set ( rings and studs ) ? I kinda like them, a man can get the best of both worlds.
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

BargeMonkey

 A set of rings or close rings will do just what you want. Ice chain isnt worth much in the mud. If you buy 2 sets of chain from TCR you can beat him up pretty good about a tire jack, I got a deal on one. The new short handled ones they have are nice, but still very deadly. How worn are your tires ? I would hate to spend great money on new chains for very worn tires, if anything buy a set of economy rings, run them a while, and when you do tires run them on the worst pair, preferably in front. Good tires in back, bald tires in front chained up and ice on back when you need them, thats the strategy around here.

RunningRoot

 

 


What you think ? Worth it ? Or you think they are to worn ...
I figured I'd put the two worst wear tires on front and slap chains on em...
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

BargeMonkey

 Those are from TCR. 5/8 close ring, and 5/8 single diamond. Not a bad looking machine for almost 12k hours.


   They arent that bad, I would put chain on those. You may have to lose a pad or get creative to get them tight, but the new ones I put on in January still had 3 links to go before the pads touched so you should be fine. For the extra 200 buy the "close rings". Unless your pounding the ground every day your going to get a long time out of them. We got 5k hours out of a set of economy 5/8 ring chains, and they could have still be run some more if you wanted to patch them.

chester_tree _farmah

Yeah.  Plenty of hours left on that rubber.  Especially if u add chains. Nice machine.  Thanks for the pics.
254xp
C4B Can-Car Tree Farmer
Ford 1720 4wd loader hoe

RunningRoot

Thanks Chester>

Bargemonkey> I like that 440D, Good lookin skidder. I had the chance to buy a 440C with a bad transmission, pick up a good used tranny and throw it in. Would have only had 6 grand invested in her with brand new rubber. Everyone steered me away from it tho, said you never know what else is wrong when you cant take it for a test run.

What size cable to you guys run on your winchs ?
Mine had a worn out 3/4'' swagged cable. I could barely pull it up the hill when i got her pulled out 100' on hillsides a man can barley walk.
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

ga jones

I use 5/8 unswaged on both of my machines. I like it cause it's easier to pull it flexes more.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

RunningRoot

Ga Jones>

Have you ever had a problem with 5/8 breaking on you ? Is it stought enough for the really heavy pulls  ?
I have a 300' spool of regular IWRC 5/8 6x26 cable in the shop, this is what I was wanting to put on it.
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

ga jones

I break choker chains before a good cable. I've only broke the last few feet of cable when it's really wore. I use ferrel and wedges and put it right back together. Regular cable lasts me a year or so. Take care of it.Keep it oiled.Make sure it's spooling right not over lapping and flat spotting . Free-spooling nice.Stretch it once in a while.
380c timberjack c4 treefarmer international trucks jonsered saws. Sugi hara bars d31 komatsu 350 tj grapple

BargeMonkey

 I hate to burst your bubble but I would have jumped on a 440C for 6k like a hand grenade. As long as the engine ran good and the pump worked, winched moved.The parts are out there, and yes a 3325 can be a pain but they are a good winch. We are running the 5/8 swedge cable and dont have to many issues, you can skid alot of wood on a cable.

HiTech

I have seen people break planetary gears. Most of the time it comes from putting to much pressure on one tire. Say you have a big hitch and are turning a tight corner on dry good going...that puts excess pressure on one back tire. I normally drop the hitch and when straight or through the corner winch it back up. Also my tires aren't loaded. If they were then I probably wouldn't chain all 4. Besides with a C4 you aren't out to break production records, just pull some wood. The ground where we work is normally muddy. They work fine for me. Run them like you own them and they will serve you well.

RunningRoot

BargeMonkey>  I know, I kinda regret not buying it but at the time I really didn't have the time to run south east after the skidder then run north west after the trans and then put it in.... I needed to buy something I could put to work.
It even had Brand new tires on it, tires didn't have 50 hours. It had brand new paint job, ran like a top and a good winch. Everything other than the tranny was pristine, I could have got the skidder for 4500 and the tranny for 1500.
Just lacked the time to do it all  :(

Hitech> I know my C4D has the lighter axles so I do want to be careful. I dont pull huge hitches anyway. Maybe 3-4 tree length at a time. I figured sense I'm loading the rear tires for stability i didn't want chains on them. I found a set of chains that are combo chains, they are ring chains with 6 studs welded between each ring, gonna put them on the front.
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

BargeMonkey

 I looked at the "combo chains" and think its a gimmick. When that ring chain or "bear paw" hits the sheet of ice thats got more contact than the ice cleat which dont stick out quite as far. I had brand new chains in january and the header was a sheet of ice, you just tried to point for the loader and hope for the best. The close rings are better in my opinion.
@ running root  - if you find a deal like that again send it my way.  :D  the guy who runs our gravel pit has a 440C, there are a few significant changes on a D but they are a nice machine. He figures his machine has over 20k hrs, the previous owner was killed  in the woods and it sat for quite a long time. I have WAY to much free time on my hands here at "work" and generally spend time looking at toys, dealer in VA had a 380C with 3k hrs for 28k a few weeks ago, someone scooped that up quick, run yours long enough till its made you something and find something in that size range, yeah a small machine is nice but 8-10 every time in average wood is nice.

RunningRoot

BargeMonkey>

I think I can still get that skidder and tranny.. I know for certain the tranny is still availible and the last I looked the skidder was still availible too...
That 380C would have been one hell of a deal as well 3k hours isnt nothin in my opinion as long as it was cared for.

Flipping rims, loading rears and putting new cable on in the A.M..
I think I'm gonna do what you said and run her a couple few months, paint her up and turn a wrench here or there and sell her to upgrade.

A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

BargeMonkey

 Ive asked ALOT of question here on the FF and everyone has been 100% awesome with their opinions. A big cable, dozer to bunch with and a medium landing loader will produce wood without being so far in debt you cant see straight. A  440C isnt a bad machine, 18.4x26 rubber is just kind of tippy, but they are a good 4-5 tree machine. Your just strictly logging or farming a bit or ???

RunningRoot

70% logging (primary job) but I poor alot of concrete in the sarounding citys with a close family member of mine on a partner kinda deal but he owns the buisness and runs the show mostly. I raise cattle as well and rasing my own tobacco next year. I have my hand In a few different things and its been working pretty well and progressing.  A wise man once told me that if your after honey, you have to stick your hand in more than one hive.. ;D

You dont think a 380C would be to big for me ?
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

BargeMonkey

 I was leery when I bought my 450C if I was going to be way to wide, 90% of the time I fit just fine and she is 122" outside the chains, and never ever, ever try and move it on the 20 ton tag trailer.  :D  Had to take the blade wings off but she fits nice. I think that 380C with 23.1 would pull alot of wood and fit nice, be easy to  move. But, and ive learned this the hard way, your going to want a loader, either off the truck or sitting there, logging up behind an 8-10 tree machine is a nightmare, plus getting unhooked sometimes can be a pain.
My time is limited between "home" and "boat", and as long as I put out enough to feed our mill and firewood orders life is good. Ive got another 12acre area to fence one of these times I get home, we never lack for something to do. My relief here keeps talking about leaving so the quicker the season ends the better I feel, getting sent to the shipyard in Kingston all winter is like hitting the lottery for me, 1.5hrs from home.

RunningRoot

Bargemonkey>

Sounds as tho you are staying busy yourself  :)
I can tell you one thing, I'm starting to fall in love with having a skidder. Makes the life of logging so much easier,faster, smoother .... Dont know how I went this long without a skidder...
Now I need to find something to replace the my old loader that I sold.

I wonder what Ga Jones is gonna do with his old log truck with the loader on it, might have to give him a shout and see if he's gonna sell it..

I pulled about 3 hitch's today before it started raining again  ::) I dunno if it's every gonna let up around here...
A man will need an LGP dozer to get around here before long if it doesn't end soon, or a boat  ;D
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

Kodiakmac

Quote from: RunningRoot on October 19, 2014, 02:14:43 AM
Bargemonkey>

"... I'm starting to fall in love with having a skidder. Makes the life of logging so much easier,faster, smoother .... 

Not to mention "fun".  ;D

I first bounced my butt on a skidder seat 42 years ago, and it still feels just as good to winch in a big drag and take off with the engine howling and the tires biting.
Robin Hood had it just about right:  as long as a man has family, friends, deer and beer...he needs very little government!
Kioti rx7320, Wallenstein fx110 winch, Echo CS510, Stihl MS362cm, Stihl 051AV, Wallenstein wx980  Mark 8:36

RunningRoot

I must admit, It is enjoyable.. :)

I'm gonna try and hit it hard this week, and buy some sort of new loader next week.
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

xalexjx

check with tire chains required as mentioned earlier. I just ordered a set of 5/8 single diamonds this morning, theyre also offering an additional 10% of with a promo code.  8)
Logging and Processed Firewood

xalexjx

update (skidder chains were delivered today!!!) way faster then i thought i would get them, also noticed they were labeled as babac chains
Logging and Processed Firewood

RunningRoot

Xalexjx,
Thats pretty fast shipping... I'm ordering mine over this weekend.
Babac chains are really good chains from what I understand and hear ?
A log in the hands worth two in the bush !

North River Energy

Quote..also noticed they were labeled as babac chains.

^
^ Might be mistaken, but I think TCR & Babac are part of/owned by Wallingfords...

xalexjx

yeah, 5/8 18.4x26 single diamonds were 1239 shipped, make sure you get the extra 10%
Logging and Processed Firewood

Nate379

I have two complete 1970s era NOS rebuild kits for Mico Loks if you are interested?

Quote from: chester_tree _farmah on October 10, 2014, 03:33:03 PM
Mine has the old wireless Mico. Wireless as in no wires at all.  :) Needed a new bleeder and the closest was in Texas. ::)

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