What price are you paying for your green lumber?

[Glenn1]

I was able to get my hands on a recent monthly copy of "Hardwood Market Report".
I was surprised on the prices paid per MBF and was wondering if these prices are applicable for the small sawyer and kiln drier who sells his lumber to the public.

Here is an example of cherry and walnut from the Appalachian Region:

Green Walnut:
4/4 FAS  $2990           4/4 1F  $2890                           4/4  1C   $1645
Kiln Dried Walnut:      4/4 FAS  $3815                         4/4 1C  $2145
_____________________________________________

Green Cherry:
4/4 FAS  $1355            4/4  1F $1345                          4/4 1C  $955
Kiln Dried Cherry         4/4 FAS $1775                           4/4 1C  1275

Based on these prices, which grade do you primarily sell? 
Is FAS usually reserved for veneer grade?
Will 1 C show where branches have  grown from the trunk?

Maybe these prices do not reflect the small company.  If you are purchasing
one green tree, would the prices be much less like  < than $1.00 per bf?

Sorry for all the questions.  I am just trying to get a footing on current prices.

Thanks,
Glenn

[Larry]

I've found retail buyers have no glue as to hardwood grading.  Some may know FAS is better than 1C but that's it.  When shown a high end 1C board next to a low end FAS they won't be able to tell the difference.  Its pointless to sell retail to most retail buyers based on those grades...and are you qualified to grade? Terms that would make more sense to the retail buyer are clear, cabinet grade, knotty, and junk. 

Also hardwood grade rules promote long and narrow boards as compared to short and wide.  That alone may work to the sellers benefit. 

To understand NHLA grades you can read there rule book or attend one of the three day short courses.  I think the actual school runs 7 weeks so you can get an idea of what may be involved.

You could learn grading just to have a defined system to separate good boards from so so boards.

In your example I'm sure all the walnut is steamed and possibly the cherry.  That's one reason for a higher than normal difference between green and KD.  There is also a big difference between 1F and FAS.  1F is graded on the best side while FAS is graded from the poor side.

[Glenn1]

Hi Larry,

I am certainly not qualified to grade and really don't want to. I probably didn't phrase the question correctly.   What threw me is the price of one board foot of FAS walnut.  It comes to $2.89.  That sounds like a whole lot for a green board.  I thought that I would only have to pay no more than $1.00 per bf for a clear board.  Should I totally disregard the prices listed in the publication and try for $1.00 or less?  Is it feasible to expect this low price in the market?

[beenthere]

Glenn
Keep in mind that the Hardwood Market Report is a collection of prices paid per MBF of lumber, by species and NHLA lumber grades. Not logs.  Your examples are for lumber.

Is FAS usually reserved for veneer grade?
Will 1 C show where branches have  grown from the trunk?

FAS is not a veneer grade (implying logs), but a lumber grade which can have some knots if the clear area is enough to make that top grade.
No. 1C is also a lumber grade, and can have less clear area than the FAS between any knots or defects. 

Hope this helps out with more understanding, along with Larry's comments.
More questions will help give you more answers. Not easy to sort out some of the many terms and meanings when dealing with hardwood trees, logs and lumber, plus the many other products.

If you can find someone to sell you top grade walnut lumber green for $1 a bdft, by all means buy it.  ;)
Not everyone has a market where they can get the top dollars for truckloads of the high grades from large producers.

[red oaks lumber]

i don't grade there fore i don't sell graded lumber. everything we produce gets made into a finished product so, we use the nessasary quality of lumber based on what we are making.
this may sound crazy at first but, if i am making a clear floor i won't start with clear lumber. using  lower grade lumber and working the defects out makes more money and saves the clear lumber for more specific jobs that command a higher dollar amount

[Glenn1]

This all makes good sense and I will continue to read the grading guidelines. 

  I guess my next question would be:  What are you currently paying for green hardwoods in your region?

[Dave Shepard]

red oaks, that's the way a flooring mill near here used to do it. Two TT loads of lower grade lumber in per day, one TT load of flooring out.

[mikeb1079]

I thought that I would only have to pay no more than $1.00 per bf for a clear board.

if you can buy clear walnut or cherry for 1$ a bf green let me know where.   

around here it's more like 2-3$

[WDH]

I doubt that you will be able to buy walnut cheaper from a commercial mill.  Also, those prices from the Hardwood Market Report are wholesale prices.

[ely]

most commercial mills here will not buy or saw walnut as a rule... something about too big a chance to hit metal.

im not sure how many people with their own sawmill would purchase boards from other mills.

[Okrafarmer]

 say_what

Am I the only one a little confused by this thread?  ???

No problem, I'm easily confused.  :-\

Maybe what someone could work through and explain is--

How much are green lumber wholesale buyers truly paying these days for green rough-cut boards (of these mentioned walnut and cherry grades)?

And while we're at it, how about the prices for a few other species? For instance, the #1C grade and the FAS (or 1F, if that's all you do) for the following species:

Walnut
Cherry
Red Oak
White Oak
Hard Maple
Red Maple
Ash
Hickory
Yellow Poplar

and any others you might buy regularly.

Also, I have another related question, but since it would take the thread in a different direction, I will post it separately in a new thread. Regarding where to find buyers for green grade lumber.

[beenthere]

How much are green lumber wholesale buyers truly paying these days for green rough-cut boards (of these mentioned walnut and cherry grades)?

And while we're at it, how about the prices for a few other species? For instance, the #1C grade and the FAS (or 1F, if that's all you do) for the following species:

Okra
The key to this answer would, I believe, be what volume per day are you talking about producing?
A big difference, IMO, if you are talking whipping out 1 mbf vs 10 mbf that is graded and on a truck solid stacked green each day (or even each week).
If it takes a month (give or take) to accumulate a truck load of green lumber that is sorted by grade (or even mill run), then likely no one is going to be interested in buying.

Others may have better knowledge of lumber purchasing.

[Okrafarmer]

True, Beenthere, it is another good question to ask: What is the minimum volume you prefer to accept at once?