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How to encourage blue stain in pine.

Started by Joe Hillmann, September 26, 2014, 11:50:57 AM

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Joe Hillmann

I have a bit of an unusual problem.  I make rustic crates with the lumber I cut on my mill.  By rustic I mean the rougher and worse looking the lumber the better.  The pine that I cut in the summer naturally started growing blue stain.  Now that the weather is cooling it isn't growing anymore and some of my repeat customers are complaining that the crates I am sending them are not rustic enough.  So is there any way to get blue stain to grow in the fall and winter? 

I have thought of soaking the piles with water than completely covering them with black plastic to trap the moisture and collect the heat from the sun. Any other suggestions?

mmartone

Remember, I only know what you guys teach me. Lt40 Manual 22hp KAwaSaki, Husky3120 60", 56" Panther CSM, 372xp, 345xp, Stihl 041, 031, blue homelite, poulans, 340

Peter Drouin

A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

red oaks lumber

wet each layer and dead stack it, that will work until the logs are frozen.
the experts think i do things wrong
over 18 million b.f. processed and 7341 happy customers i disagree

LaneC

You may also try going to the "wood processing and drying" part of the forum and ask "Genewergart  wood doc" He is very knowledgeable in the stained, mold and fungus fields.
Man makes plans and God smiles

Joe Hillmann


BradMarks

This is interesting. Blue stain occurs naturally in Pines out here that have been standing dead for awhile - such as after a fire. Except for custom work, it is generally undesirable, and therefore there is a huge push to get the dead/dying out of the woods after the fires. I didn't know you could "encourage" it after cutting live wood.

Joe Hillmann

Quote from: BradMarks on September 26, 2014, 02:19:09 PM
This is interesting. Blue stain occurs naturally in Pines out here that have been standing dead for awhile - such as after a fire. Except for custom work, it is generally undesirable, and therefore there is a huge push to get the dead/dying out of the woods after the fires. I didn't know you could "encourage" it after cutting live wood.

I just looked it up.  It appears as if blue stain has different meanings.  In the Rockies and west it is a fungus that is spread by beatles that prevents the tree from defending itself from the beatles and eventually kills the tree, it ends up with the sapwood turning blue.

Blue stain can also be any type of fungus that grows in the wood after the tree is cut and before the lumber is dry,  it isn't the same as mold or mildew.  Mold or mildew grows on the outside of the lumber, the stain grows inside of it.  It can be caused by many different types of fungus.

The second one is the one I am trying to grow.

Dave Shepard

You are only going to have blue stain in the sap wood. Do you have a warm garage where you could dead stack your outer boards and keep them moist? Right after the blue stain comes the white mold. That's one step too far. :D
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

backwoods sawyer

Then comes those little grubby things that like to decorate your wood as they feed.
Still rustic ;D
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

Nomad

     If you lived down here, figuring out how to get pine to blue stain would be the least of your problems. :D
Buying a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter
WoodMizer LT50HDD51-WR
Lucas DSM23-19

customsawyer

This is like asking how to herd cats. :D No one has ever done this before but we are all ears on what you learn.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

bandmiller2

You need heat and humidity for blue stain. The surest way is to cut as much pine as you think you will sell in the hot humid summer months. Before really cold weather you could try dead stacking and cover with black plastic. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Bandmill Bandit

Without Pine Beatle Pee you are wasting your time.

I have been told by a provincial government foresty guy that there really is no other way to get it. It contains a bacteria/fungus that when exposed to air and moister and warmth it will start to grow.

I would NOT however Recommend growing Pine Beatles.   
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

WDH

The black plastic should work.  There is moisture in the wood and the black plastic will trap the heat that you need.  Not sure if it will work after freezing weather, though, as the fungus that causes the stain may not be active. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

WoodenHead

I still have about 20,000 bdft of pine to cut.  Since it has been sitting around through the summer, I'll be seeing lots of blue stain (caused by heat and humidity around here).  I'd be happy to send you some.   ;D

justallan1

How about contacting other local sawyers and either working a trade for you "undesirable" perfectly good wood or possibly just buy their logs with blue stain.
I've known guys that did the rustic look on things for people and understand what they are wanting. Another great trick they used was taking a chain with a bunch of bolts run through it and beating the heck out of the boards before building or burning them a bit then cleaning it up halfway and building.

Allan

Peter Drouin

Quote from: WoodenHead on September 26, 2014, 08:42:50 PM
I still have about 20,000 bdft of pine to cut.  Since it has been sitting around through the summer, I'll be seeing lots of blue stain (caused by heat and humidity around here).  I'd be happy to send you some.   ;D




Why would you have all that Pine lay all summer? Did buy it or just cut it off your land?
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

WoodenHead

Quote from: Peter Drouin on September 26, 2014, 10:28:10 PM
Quote from: WoodenHead on September 26, 2014, 08:42:50 PM
I still have about 20,000 bdft of pine to cut.  Since it has been sitting around through the summer, I'll be seeing lots of blue stain (caused by heat and humidity around here).  I'd be happy to send you some.   ;D

Why would you have all that Pine lay all summer? Did buy it or just cut it off your land?

I buy pine from loggers who only supply it during the months between November and February.  Since I sell lumber I have to guess how much I might need.  At the time it looked like milling was going to be my primary source of income, so I bought a good bunch of it.  Then I got busy doing other things.  So, I wasn't able to saw as much as I had hoped before blue stain set in.   :-\

slider

Jo I'm thinking a woman I know stained some pine by using vinegar and steel wool.It gave it a rustic look.
al glenn

drobertson

Leave the bark on the logs, and let them sit for a spell.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

ellmoe

  Come to Florida. Cut down a pine tree. Turn around twice. Presto! Blue Pine!
Thirty plus years in the sawmill/millwork business. A sore back and arthritic fingers to prove it!

POSTON WIDEHEAD

IMO...Blue stain only occurs in Pine when it is in log form. After you saw a log into lumber and there is no
Blue Stain showing......it is impossible to produce Blue Stain. You can easily produce Mold....but not Blue Stain.

Mold and Blue Stain may in fact be from fungus.....but the Blue Stain that some of us look for MUST occur by natural process and CAN NOT be made to happen.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Bandmill Bandit

Seriously guys I have cut lot of pine. I have never seen the blue stain in any logs that did not have evidence of Pine Beetle  infestation.

Nor have I sawn a log with evidence of the Pine Beetle that did not have at least a hint of it.

More than a few people refer to it as denim pine and it commands a premium dollar.
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

WDH

Bandit,

In the deep South, the blue stain fungus that we are speaking of has wind borne spores.  The fungus will grow in freshly cut logs if it is hot and humid, and the fungus does not require the beetle as a vector.  However, if the beetles do attack, the fungus comes in with them, too. 

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

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