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Poplar Questions

Started by scleigh, September 25, 2014, 10:26:41 PM

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scleigh

I have been sawing Poplar this week, to be used as a ceiling on a friends back porch. I have a few questions, so I'll try and cover all details..

I decided to saw everything 8' long and 6" or 8" wide , 1" thick. The plan is to air dry, stickered on pallets, with fans on the wood, for a year. Once dry I plan to put the boards back on the mill and trim any bow. Once all boards have been trimmed and dry, I plan to cut the edge of each board at 45 degrees on a table saw, in place of tongue and groove.


 
Some of the logs had purple, yellow and green heart wood that looked like flames.


So.....my questions: Will one year drying time be adequate for outdoor use in this application without kiln drying?  Will the 45 degree edges work in place of tongue and groove? I know it wont work as well as tongue and groove, but I'm hoping it'll keep any movement from revealing an ugly crack.

Hoping to learn with this project and help a good friend out. Looking for any advice or flaws anyone can see, that maybe I'm missing.



 
I know the stickers are not perfect and the alignment of the pallets is off as well, so go easy on me Red Oaks

beenthere

That is a pretty respectable job of stickering...  smiley_thumbsup
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

coppolajc10

If you have a router, you could ship-lap instead of 45 as other option.

scleigh

Thanks B.T., I had everything looking good and it started to rain. I rushed both pallets in the building and bumped the top one with an empty on the last trip inside withe tractor. I straightened it best I could.

I considered a router and a shaper, but since I own neither I decided on the 45 degree route.

I cut a test piece with the circular saw to see what the joint would look like.


 
The test piece had been sawn about 10 months ago and was fairly dry, judging by the weight. It turned out pretty good considering I cut it free handed .

DansSawmill

use a dado, or failing that 2-3 sawblades on the same mandrel ( have done that with a cheap table saw)
and cut a dado on the  one edge, and the same on the other edge, other face. then when they shrink, you will have 1/4 inch or so befroe exposure
Dan's Sawmill
Custom Sawing since 94
CNC woodworking too
now with a 98' lt40 super

beenthere

Do you have a jointer ?  how about a table saw?   After one edge is jointed straight, then rip to width on the table saw. Then a dado head in the table saw would make the step for overlap. Might be easier than hand circular saw at a 45 deg.
Just depends on what you have to work with.

Or like Dans suggests. ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

scleigh

BT, I do have a grizzly 8" jointer, could purchase a decent table saw.

I think your way would result in less waste. I had 5/8 loss in each test piece.

Compensation

Would a 22.5° work. I like the pattern in the boards.
D4D caterpillar, lt10 Woodmizer, 8x12 solar kiln, enough Stihl's to make my garages smell like their factory :) Ohh and built Ford tough baby!

kelLOGg

Nice looking colors. Too bad poplar can't hold on to the color.

I don't think it will take a year to dry 1" poplar. If it is outside just sticker and cover to protect from sun and rain. Fans may make it dry too fast. But wait til you hear from someone more knowledgeable about poplar.  :-\
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

rooster 58

   As others have stated, I would try to ship lap your boards. A router isn't all that expensive, you might find one at a garage sale. And you can make a router table with a fence to do the work on ;)

36 coupe

You can do shiplap on a table saw with a single blade.A helper on the out feed makes it easier .

FarmingSawyer

Tongue and groove helps with alignment and strength...but because this is a ceiling that isn't needed so much....Shiplap helps hide what's behind when boards shrink. Because this is outdoors, and a ceiling....a simple square edge from the tablesaw or jointer should be enough. Just spring them tight as you install them.....How you ask? Put up the 1st board and then run some perpendicular 1x4 underneath to help hold up the subsequent boards.....if you are working by yourself, that is.....

Air dry is plenty fine for outdoor work. Every year energy is wasted getting boards down to 8% moisture that are going to climb right back to 12% or more when used outdoors. Kiln drying doesn't necessarily provide stability....which is why when you buy hardwood flooring your supposed to allow it to acclimatize in the building for a few weeks before installing....ie, let it swell up or shrink down a bit in that specific space.

Since the wood is stacked indoors a fan on low to move the moisture away might be worth it. I bet it takes 4-6mos to get down to useable moisture.
Thomas 8020, Stihl 039, Stihl 036, Homelite Super EZ, Case 385, Team of Drafts

slider

I would bet that with a fan on it you could get it down to 12% in 6 months or less.
al glenn

WDH

I am with slider.  Yellow poplar dries fast.  It is not as persnickety to dry like some woods, like oak.  You can use fans with no concern.  In NC, especially in late Summer and Fall, drying conditions are optimal.  I bet that your poplar will be air dry to 12 - 15% in 4 months if you keep fans on it.

The coloration on some of your figured boards is sometimes referred to as rainbow poplar.  Down here in GA, people ask me for it, but I don't get much.  You might want to pull out the most colorful boards.  It is more valuable than the rest. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Dave Shepard

Check to see if that jointer has a ship lap notch on the front. Many Grizzly jointers do! You may already have the perfect tool. 8)
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

scleigh

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll have to check my jointer when I get home, on a Mtn bike camping trip this weekend. May need some guidance on the ship lap.

scleigh

I was looking at the jointer and it does have the groove on the outfeed table.

I purchased the jointer in early summer and after wiring a receptacle for it, I read the manual and ran a few boards across it, have'nt  touched it since.

Here's my dumb question / 's  for the day: Is rabbet cutting the same as ship lap?  If only cutting a 1/4" part of the board, is 1/8" still the max cutting depth? Do you guys think it would be easier to saw several boards at a time ( after drying) on the mill to eliminate any bow or do one at a time on the jointer?

WDH

Shiplap is two rabbets, one on each board, and one rabbet is wider than the other typically so that when they are joined, there is a gap or groove between the boards. 

Cutting these rabbets on the tablesaw with a dado blade is the only way that I have done it.  Slow, but reliable. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

YellowHammer

Beautiful wood, nice pallets and stacking.  As mentioned, poplar dries fast with lots of air this time of year.  I just had a stack go from soaking wet to <20% in 4 weeks with a couple barrel fans blowing on it.  Fans will also significantly reduce your chances of developing the dreaded zebra stripe (sticker stain) that won't plane out.    When you get done, its going to look great.
YH
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

FarmingSawyer

I do this sort of thing a lot. I'd be tempted to stack a bunch of boards on the mill and with a sharp blade skim one edge square & straight. Then run them on a table saw to a common width.

You should be able to set your jointer fence over to the left by 1/2inch and drop the out feed table to 1/2 the board thickness. Use a test board or 2 and run one side to rabbit it. Flip it over so the second rabbit is on the other Face and run again. Adjust until even.

If you want to do the shadow line then make the 1st rabbit even on one edge of all boards then move the fence back an 1/8th and run the opposite face of 2nd edge.

It will help to have some hold down finger boards to keep wood flat to planer table. Other best option is dado on radial arm saw or table saw-- same procedure.
Thomas 8020, Stihl 039, Stihl 036, Homelite Super EZ, Case 385, Team of Drafts

scleigh

Thanks for the idea's, leaning towards doing both edges on mill, then rabbet on the jointer.
Got plenty of time to decide, having rotator  cuff surgery next month.

Nomad

Quote from: scleigh on September 30, 2014, 04:54:17 PM
Thanks for the idea's, leaning towards doing both edges on mill, then rabbet on the jointer.
Got plenty of time to decide, having rotator  cuff surgery next month.

     Sorry to hear about the surgery, but doing it this way will work.  A tablesaw and dado blade would be faster and easier though.
Buying a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter
WoodMizer LT50HDD51-WR
Lucas DSM23-19

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