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Selling timber question.

Started by sgordy, September 25, 2014, 10:13:17 AM

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sgordy

Good morning. We are currently in the process of having our pines removed and was wondering what the typical rate for a load would be? I am not sure what the rate per ton is but I will probably call the lumber place and find out. When we first signed the contract, the guy told us we would get around $8000 but to us it just seems a little low now seeing all the pines. So far they have brought out 25 loads and still probably got another 10 or 15.  We kind of wish we would have got a second offer but o well. I added a photo of one of the loads. Most are about like that one but some with smaller stuff and some with bigger. Thanks everyone.



 

75Camaro4x4

For the trees I have cut, I was quoted at $500 per load of anything over 15" diameter. The tree tops were $250 per load. and enything between 7" and 15" was $350 a load.

That is me cutting them down, and the guy coming to pick them up and haul them.
Devin Messer

beenthere

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

Did you go through a forester and have a contract? Or make a deal directly with the logger?
Both are ways to do it, and appreciate your concern. Looks like a lot of wood on that truck.

Would you mind putting your location in your profile?  That would help knowing when answering your question. tks
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

sgordy

Thanks for the replies. So according to your estimates,  75camaro, that should be about right then.  We actually have more land than we thought. We were kind of unsure of our boundary lines but when they came out and did the outline, it added a lot more so we will more than likely go over that first quote. Had no clue we had this many pines... Beenthere, I will add location. I am in Georgia. It is a timber company so I believe directly with the logger.

treeslayer2003

be advised that prices are different all over and you should consider any thing we say accordingly.

now then, there is nothing wrong with dealing with the logger. what aggreement  did you and he make?
i can't tell how many trees are on that load, but we get paid according to avg feet per tree. out top pay here is 300 per thousand board feet and trees must avg 300 feet to get that.......so at 300 x 4000ft load, thats roughly 1200 a load. i am paying half of the top for timber that size so that makes 600 per load to the landowner......loads will not run exactly at 4000.......ours run 4200-4500. your trees look a bit smaller so i would say they would sell at 225 or 250........bear in mind that your markets could be different. really little wood is for chips and worth very little.

if you do not have a contract, you can stop them at any time, or modify the agreement.

treeslayer2003

looking at your pic again, i'd say there is at least 20 trees on there so avg is closer to 200 ft or lower.....225 or less is a good bet.

learner

Hello sgordy and welcome to the forum.  Here in Texas the rate for pine is around $20 per ton to the landowner with the sawmills paying around $48 per ton delivered.  Here is a great site for helping you figure things out.  http://www.globalwood.org/tech/tech_wood_weights.htm

Good Luck with things!
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WDH

That load should net the landowner about $625.  That would be for pine sawlogs.  Pulpwood loads would be less than half of that.  The value depends on the product, sawlogs versus pulpwood for example.  Send me a PM with the name of the company that purchased the timber.
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SAnVA

I'm not a logger, but that looks like pulpwood to me , not saw logs! Landowner doesn't get much out of pulpwood, saw logs pay a lot better!

WDH

Sorry SAnVA, but those are pine sawlogs.  Top diameter looks to be 6" to 8". 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

treeslayer2003

wdh, what kind of prices for large pine gate wood in your area? i am just curios how far out our local prices are.

AvianQuest

Supply and demand determines what the mill pays, and thus what the logger pays.

Another big factor is how far the logs have to be hauled to a mill that needs them. 

Southside

May be comparing apples to oranges here, but a load like that around here would be heading to a chip-n-saw mill, sold by the ton for around $38 or so per ton delivered, land owner would be paid around 30% or so of that, give or take $300.  Telephone poles pay around $50 per ton, and logs cut to length are $300 / thousand board feet (MBF)  for #1 logs (16' and 10" diameter at the small end) $225 for #2 logs (size and limbs knock it down to this grade) and then down to $175 for #3 logs (that which is not quite pulp, but not far from it).  Pulp pays $21 / ton delivered to a log yard. 

There are a lot of factors that go into what the value of your wood is paid to you, the pine market has not been strong around here for a while, even veneer quality was only $42 per ton last time I spoke with the mill. 

From your description it sounds like you are being paid as the wood is sold and not just a lump sum up front, which in my opinion often results in more income to the landowner as any business person who wants to stay in business has to estimate on the low end when buying standing timber - just too many unknown variables there. 

Without knowing a lot more about how far it is to the mill, local demand, difficulty of your terrain, etc my opinion would be that you are in the ballpark. 
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JD Processor
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ForestGump

Quote from: learner on September 25, 2014, 05:29:04 PM
Hello sgordy and welcome to the forum.  Here in Texas the rate for pine is around $20 per ton to the landowner with the sawmills paying around $48 per ton delivered.  Here is a great site for helping you figure things out.  http://www.globalwood.org/tech/tech_wood_weights.htm

Good Luck with things!

In your above scenario with mill paying $48/ton and landowner receiving $20/ton, what is the typical split of the remaining $28/ton between logger and trucker who drive them to the mill?
Just curious and trying to get a feel for how things work.
Let the wood times roll!

WDH

The logger generally gets $12.00/ton to $14.00/ton, depending on tract conditions, to cut, skid, and load.  Trucking is about $.12 - $.13 per ton/mile, so on a 60 mile haul, the trucking would be about $7.50 per ton. 

So, on a 25 ton payload, the landowner would receive from $450 to $625 for the load depending on whether the product is chip-n-saw or sawlogs, the logger would receive about $325 for the load, and the trucker would receive about $188 for the load.  The delivered price to the mill would be $1138, assuming sawlogs in this example, or about $45.50 per ton.  This assumes that the receiving Mill bought the wood from the landowner directly and contracted with the logger to cut and haul.

If the logger purchased the timber from the landowner, then there would be another couple of $/ton for the logger as they would have to cover their cost for the buying the timber (there has to be someone to cruise and buy the timber, so this is an extra cost that has to be covered when the logger is buying the timber versus only logging the timber for the Mill). 

After looking at the load again, it could be large chip-n-saw or small sawlogs, so the value could be a little less, so the value could be anywhere from $450 to $625 depending on the product.  Logs smaller than 12" DBH are generally chip-n-saw, and logs over 12" DBH are sawlogs. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

sgordy

Thanks for the replies everyone. Yalls information has really helped.  I have to go back and read a couple of things again but all in all pleased. We are actually about a mile from a wood mill which helps. That load was one of the smaller but have a few that were even smaller and some with some big stuff but we are not trying to get rich. Just wanted to thin out the woods for hunting. Keeping all the hard woods. I just wanted to make sure that we kind of know what we are talking about when the contractor comes to give us the check.  I'm sure they won't tell us what each truck weighed but I am definitely keeping count that comes out. They seem like a really good company. Just got off of a 10,000 acre property before our little 30 acres.  Thanks again guys.

thecfarm

There should be a scale slip for EVERY truck load,no matter what!!!!!
Let me edit this some. Scale slip will have what the truck weighed full and empty. Or how many board feet was on a load.
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WDH

Scale tickets are required by Law in GA. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

CCC4

Yes, those logs are production pine. Mills like the former Weyerhauser love that size logs...actually they don't want anything over 32" here. We sell all the OS stuff to Menonites. That load would bring around $600 to $625 here.

treeslayer2003

Quote from: CCC4 on September 27, 2014, 08:49:31 AM
Yes, those logs are production pine. Mills like the former Weyerhauser love that size logs...actually they don't want anything over 32" here. We sell all the OS stuff to Menonites. That load would bring around $600 to $625 here.
gross?  >:(

CCC4

Quote from: treeslayer2003 on September 27, 2014, 09:08:30 AM
Quote from: CCC4 on September 27, 2014, 08:49:31 AM
Yes, those logs are production pine. Mills like the former Weyerhauser love that size logs...actually they don't want anything over 32" here. We sell all the OS stuff to Menonites. That load would bring around $600 to $625 here.
gross?  >:(

No, I'm sorry, if that load would go 30 ton it would gross $900.

sgordy

Quote from: thecfarm on September 26, 2014, 07:24:32 PM
There should be a scale slip for EVERY truck load,no matter what!!!!!
Let me edit this some. Scale slip will have what the truck weighed full and empty. Or how many board feet was on a load.

So should we ask to see all the slips when the contractor comes to give us the check?  We got 46 loads of pines and I believe 2 of those were a mixture of hardwood. Which they were not supposed to get but guess they couldn't help it.. Had to make a "loading dock".

sgordy

I did try to call the mill down the road where they took the trees but I didn't get an answer on the numbers I called and I also called the forester and they would not tell me the price per ton. They told me to call the mill... So I am not sure what it is. I may go up there Monday. I believe the guy already told us this but it was a year ago. Took them that long. Do any of y'all know what percentage they get? A friend of mine told me the other day that her mother had her pines took off her land a few years ago and she got about $18,000 and she only had 13 acres. Not sire what size they were bit the guy that did ours quoted us around $8000. Sooooo.... Just don't know what to think.

treeslayer2003

mills don't like to give out prices.........they don't like to cause trouble. 8 seems light to me, but like i said things are different all over. if you signed a contract, there may be little you can do now.

Puffergas

I can understand a mill not saying what they paid for a load of logs BUT they should not have a problem stating what they pay for pine. Just call them and ask what they pay for pine logs and they will give you a brake down of the prices, #1, #2, blocking etc. Now you can make an educated estimation.
Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

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