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Timber frame 911

Started by thechknhwk, September 12, 2014, 07:47:12 PM

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thechknhwk

Sorry about the title, but I don't really know what else to say. 

I'm falling behind the 8 ball, things are not going or coming together.  I'd like to get someone on site to help assemble and raise.  I'm using bolt through brackets for the joints (bracket front and back)   There seems to be too many planes coming together to allow proper alignment. I cannot get the holes to line up from front to back for the life of me.  I'm making my cuts with a prazi beam saw and they have proven to be less than accurate.  I have prints/plans, I have 90% of my timbers cut, I have all the brackets, all the girts and purlins, the concrete is down.  The brackets on the foundation are mounted; it's too late to turn back now.  I initially thought that I could assemble on the concrete and raise with a crane, but it now seems to me improbable.

Is this something that can be done in a week with the right tools, a good foreman, and some usually competent carpenters?  I have a tractor with forks to move timbers.  My brother in law has a CAT telehandler that might take some groveling, but I could probably get brought over, if not I know of someone I may be able to rent one from.  I'd like to get a motivated competent leader on site with the right tools to bring this together.  If someone has the ability to volunteer I would make a worthwhile donation to the forum, or if we negotiate a fee I will pay the 5%.  I can offer food and lodging for one person (you can have my son's room), 3 square meals, and beer ;D.  Or if you've got a camper my property is available with power, but no water.

Personal message me for my phone number, or send me your email if you would like to look at the prints.

Thanks for any considerations,

Paul

thechknhwk

Some general pics of what I'm dealing with.



The joint at the middle post is the one giving me fits, 4 timbers coming together.



My test piece from earlier today.  I had a fixture made that guides an 18" bit straight for 6 inches before it goes into the wood.  It seemed to work on this block, but not so much so when I had 4 pieces coming together.


witterbound

Sorry, don't have any experience with a raising using metal brackets.  But I've got to say that's an awfully big wall to construct on the deck and then try to raise.   

danreed76

One of the structures that actually inspired us to build a timber frame was post and beam using metal brackets.  In speaking with the owner, he indicated that the brackets came with holes only drilled in one face, and the corresponding plate was left un-drilled until assembly, and each bracket had a corresponding template to mark the timber on one face.  The timber was marked and drilled, then the metal fixture fitted in place and the hole drilled through to the opposite face of the bracket.  In his opinion this was done specifically to allow for the variation in the holes in the timber due to the improbability of getting a perfect shot each time as long drill bits tend to "wander" in wood (and that any clearance in the drill guide can allow a slight angle that compounds the error into an offset between the entry and exit of the bit).

As your holes are already drilled on both sides of the bracket, you might consider consulting with an engineer to see if you can enlarge the holes to allow the fastener to pass through, then either use large washers or "doubler plates" which are drilled to match the exit point of the fasteners.  It's a bit more work/material, but it may/should sacrifice less strength than trying to re-drill or oversize the holes in the timber members.

-Dan
Woodmizer LT40 Hydraulic with resaw attachment |  Kubota MX5200  | (late)1947 8N that I can't seem to let go.

thechknhwk

Thanks for the insight, I was considering drilling all the plate holes to 5/8 from 9/16 to overcome this issue.

razor

I'm a little too far to lend a hand but i have to agree with witterbound. That is an enormous bent. It would take a crane for sure, probably a 40 ton, with spreader bar. And strong backs all over the place to stiffen it up. There would be creaking :o. Raising in smaller chunks is the way to go.
As for drilling straight holes the guild sells a square plastic mirror with a centre hole for the bit. Keep the reflection plumb and your hole is plumb. But your jig sounds like it should work also. A sharp bit is key.
It may be too late but I would consider boring oversized holes in the timber rather than the plates. That way the plates are oriented where they should be and not askew because the bolts are. Your test block and the piece behind looks like ash, is it? What's the rest of it made out of?

thechknhwk

The entire frame is ash, sans the girts and perlins which are poplar.

Brad_bb

I don't have any experience in post and beam, only timberframe.  In timberframe, you usually have your frame finished and test fit ahead of time so that when the slab or deck is ready, you can raise it smoothly with confidence. 

It's often a mistake to be in a rush mode when it comes to something like this.  It could lead to mistakes and possibly poor craftsmanship.  Don't take the crafsmanship of precise cutting and hole boring for granted.  It's important.  Done right, post and beam takes just as much as skill as timberframing.  Planning ahead and preparation are key to a smooth and successful raising and project.   I would think with post and beam that a lot of the fitting and installation would be done ahead of time, ahead of raising day.

My advice to you is to slow down, don't rush.  Don't try and put the raising before the building/fitting.  Find the proper expertise for both design analysis, planning, and cutting and fitting.   You may need to cover the timbers for awhile while you back up and do the prep work or find the expertise.  The cost of paying for some experience is often cheaper than the cost of not having it.

If I were you I'd start by contacting reputable companies that build post and beam.  Explain your situation, that you have engineering drawings that are stamped by an engineer(hopefully ), and see if they would be willing to consult on your project. 
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

thechknhwk

Thanks for the input Brad, sure you don't want to come help ;D ?  Yes the drawings are stamped and I have already called in some experience, he is supposed to be reviewing my prints, and said he would get back to me tomorrow or Wednesday.  I thought I would also ask here in case some one was up for an adventure :D

Hilltop366

It might work better if you could drill from both sides, probably easier said than done but my first idea is to drill the holes in the wood while they are standing up in place with staging up around the frame.

Also might help to have a few nail or screw holes in the plate to keep them in place while marking the holes and bolting.


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